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Native American myths/traditions support Bigfoot? A critical look.

My sources are Seneca storytellers, and a book by someone who went around and compiled the stories that I read at college. I'll try to find the name of the book.

Actually, I did it right now. Seneca Myths and Folk Tales, by Arthur Caswell Parker. It was published in 1923. Parker was a Seneca and an archeologist. His sources were, Seneca story tellers. There are two of them for sale at Amazon if anyone is really interested, along with several other books on Seneca tales. They are good stories, and the cool factor of the False Face Society is undeniable.
 
Seneca Myths and Folk Tales, by Arthur Caswell Parker. It was published in 1923. Parker was a Seneca and an archeologist.
.

Not interested in Fasle Face. But thanks, I was wondering which book you got that information from. I'd say that disproves the contents of the list, excepting the possibility of poor research (you mentioned stone giant like creature).
 
There is a new book that delves in native american's myths and it's possible relationship with bigfoot. It was written by a member here, but I forget the name of the book.

If kit could post a reference detailing the book's possible use of Seneca myths that would be helpful.

But thanks tyr, your information is very helpful.
 
When I saw on that list "Seneca - Ge no'sgwa - Stone giants," was being used as one native name for 'bigfoot' I couldn't stop laughing. I'm sitting here in the north western part of the Allegany mountains, the land that the Stone Giants were to have lived in, and I can say that besides being big, strong, and perhaps having sharp teeth, they were supposed to be nothing like bigfoot. First and foremost, they are NOT hairy! They were called Stone Giants because depending on the legend they were either born with stone like skin that could deflect arrows with the strongest flint heads, or they created this natural armor over time by rubbing sand into their skin until it formed thick callouses filled with sand that looked like stone.

I seem to vaguely recall a Bigfoot proponent claiming that Bigfoot would cover itself in sap and roll around on stones for protection/camouflage. I tried to find it using Google, but the closest thing I could find was this.

On a similar note, I recently noticed this description from page 221 of Basil Johnston's "The Manitous," put out by Minnesota Historical Society Press (from the 2001 reissue of the original 1995 printing, bolding by me):

The Wendigo was gaunt to the point of emaciation, its desiccated skin pulled tautly over its bones. With its bones pushing out against its skin, its complexion the ash gray of death, and its eyes pushed back deep into their sockets, the Wendigo looked like a gaunt skeleton recently disinterred from the grave. What lips it had were tattered and bloody [....] Unclean and suffering from suppurations of the flesh, the Wendigo gave off a strange and eerie odor of decay and decomposition, of death and corruption."

Something tells me someone saw that Wendigos were giants who smelled bad and immediately assumed "Bigfoot," instead of looking at the rest of the details.

Also: More "Stick indian" fun...
 

Interesting. In Hekanah Walker's book detailing his 10 years with the Spokanes, while describing a race of giant cannibals (which is the creature associated with bigfoot) also described Stick Indians, calling them Elequas Tern. They were "little people, who inhabited the high places" (Cascades).

The poster at BFF, who is of the Colvilles (Spokane), stated that 'stick indian' is the commonly used native term for bigfoot.

The changing use (bastardization) of descriptive terms is somewhat common.
 
Just wanted to say thanks to tyr 13 for sharing the info regarding Seneca stone giant myths and welcome to the forum. I'm very behind with this thread as I'm just coming to the end of my extended visit to Canada and returning to Japan. I did find one sasquatch while in Canada but sadly it was an art display with antlers and a rubber ding dong. As I said before I want to address Hairy Man/Kathy Strain's suggestions and take a look at the recent Monster Quest episode on the subject of this thread. If I'm really lucky I might be able to get my hands on a copy of Kathy's new book.
 
Not interested in Fasle Face. But thanks, I was wondering which book you got that information from. I'd say that disproves the contents of the list, excepting the possibility of poor research (you mentioned stone giant like creature).
Pot. Kettle. Black (this is not racist, it refers to a saying regarding hypocrisy.

tyr_13. Keep an eye on mots if you continue to post in this thread.

He has a history of misquoting posts in order to construct strawmen to support his agenda.

mots. It was YOU not tyr_13 that twisted the Stone Giant reference to read Stone Giant-like.

Post 677 You'll laugh alot here. The list was discredited.

So, are you Seneca? Perhaps Stone Giant (list) should have read Stone Giant-like.
You really are a piece of work.

Native Americans that agree with you are the salt of the earth and nobly maintaining the oral history of their nations.

Native Americans that DISagree with you are Bigfoot deniers.

Yes tyr_13, you WILL laugh here, just not necessarily at the same thing as mots
 
Tyr, this isn't for you

A Stone Giant like creature is said to still exist in the area, is story. It is the white cannibal giant who walks around the woods scaring campers, wearing a stove pipe hat (like honest Abe's), and eating people. No, I don't know how he is supposed to be a cannibal, even though he is a giant that eats people, not other giants, but still.

.

For any ignoramuses that missed this part.
 
Quick note, I meant, "in story," not, "is story." Besides, the cannibal giant is just a story to tell around campfires that only superficially ties in to the stone giants.
 
Quick note, I meant, "in story," not, "is story." Besides, the cannibal giant is just a story to tell around campfires that only superficially ties in to the stone giants.

Okay, so the cannibal giant isn't referenced in the book that you mentioned?

I'm having a hard time believing that such an ignorant and amateurish mistake would have been made in the research of the 'list'. A giant stone man who rubs sand on himself in no way resembles bigfoot. However, in the PNW, various tribes refer to a giant cannibal which is the animal referred to as bigfoot. It's hairy too.
 
It should be noted that alot of the common translations of indian terms are not transliterations. It's been noted previously. One poster tried to state that indians described a possible sasquatch creature as 'having millions of mouths', but when asked by me, he was unable to find a native term for millions that was used by that particular tribe at that particular time.
Same with cannibal, it was a convenient term, but it's been noted that the tribes use 'maneater'.
Same also with Abe's tophat, I would challenge anyone to find a preexisting native word for tophat. It was a term to describe it's head, which obviously was the most striking feature noticeable.
 
The cannibal giant with the top hat isn't a Seneca story, it is a modern tale. Well, modern as of the late 1800's that is. So that isn't a translation or in the book I referenced. And no, the cannibal giant was never supposed to be a native tale or bigfoot. It is just related thematically, and might be a newer corruption of the Seneca stone giants tale.

Anyone who wants to know more about the 'cannibal giant' story, I believe it is in Chautauqua Ghosts.
 
Here is an interesting thread I took part in at BFF.
http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=20705&hl=video&st=0
There are also some comments from Hairy Man (K. Strain) in the thread
Excerpt

MOI said:
QUOTE(Minister_of_Information @ Oct 22 2007, 02:19 PM) [snapback]414592[/snapback]
If BF was fully imaginary, we could expect that its traits would be somewhat random, yet they cohere around the principle of stealth and camoflage.

Drew said:
Pre-European Settlement
1. Native Americans were stealthy, and yet the Sasquatch would sneak up on them. Whether it was in their dreams or fever, or hallucination is not important, the storys could have been told with the idea that the supernatural beast appeared 'as if by magic'. Then listeners would ask, "why can't we see the Sasquatch?" and the answer of course would be 'They are too stealthy for us to find on our own...'

2. Supernatural beasts, which is what I believe the Sasquatch was dubbed by the Native Americans, typically have a trait which encompasses their behavior. Dragons lived deep in the mountain caves, Mermaids were beautiful sirens of the sea. These were developed over generations of storytellers embellishing the stories more and more. The Sasquatch is dubbed stealthy, because no one can reproduce their whereabouts. The Dragon lives deep in the mountains, where the heat from a volcano was attributed to a dragon, Mermaids were beautiful, to encourage Greenhands, about to go crazy from Scurvy, not to give up, "there is a beautiful maiden of the sea awaiting you..."

Modern
1. People investing money wanting to know why there isn't a photo of the bigfoot, "Well, he doesn't come right out and pose for the camera"

2. People claiming bigfoot sighting, saying the same to a news reporter sent out to cover it

3. People who got caught by the chill of Finding the Bipedal Monster Walking the Woods, trying to rationalize their behavior, and reasoning that BF is stealthy, and not easy to find.

This is why BF is stealthy, every story in the News is, "BIGFOOT Stalks the Deep Woods. A legendary beast may be stalking our northern forests, the stealthy, reclusive beast has long been reported to...", Since 1960's people have been looking for him as a profession, and as amateurs, there is only one video that still lingers as the definitive capture of the beast on film, (Amongst some anyway) Bigfoot is by nature stealthy, or more people would have seen it. Stealth is our perception of him, he hides behind trees and watches us, sneaks into camp and pushes on sleeper's chests, it's perpetuated at every step.
 
Thanks for the link, Drew. I consider Kathy's posts as usually interesting and ballanced, despite my disagreement regarding the existence of bigfeet.

OK, I try to avoid forum cross-posting, but I just would like to point one issue, which I feel may be relevant to our discussion. Here's an extract of one of her posts:
Hairy Man @ BFF said:
If bigfoot stories are a left over from the land bridge crossing, then it's the only one there is...there are no stories that talk about animals only found in Asia, no stories about coming from Asia, etc.
OK, it seems correct at a first glance, but I would like to point two isses:
1. A relatively great portion of North America's fauna -megafauna especially- is or was shared with Northern and Northeastern Asia. Given the similarity, its no surprise, I think, that we find no tales about Asiatic-only animals. Of course, this argument may cut both ways.
2. There are myths which may have been brought from Asia by the paleoindians' ancestors- the myths related to the constellation Ursa Majoris. Several Native American and Eurasian cultures interpret the pattern of those stars as a bear. OK, it may be a coincidence.

Hopefully HM will make some comments.

Slightly OT note: I always wondered why there are no tales about creatures like mammoths and saber-toothed cats if oral traditions can survive for more than 10Ky.

Yep, myth interpretation is slippery territory. But it never ceases to amaze me.
 
Union Democrat news article about Kathy Strain and her new Bigfoot book.


She said her book does not prove the existence of Bigfoot, but it does add to the intrigue: How could so many native cultures, from coast to coast, have such similar make-believe creatures?

"They've been here for 15,000 years," Strain said of American Indians. "If Bigfoot was real, it would be part of their oral stories — not unlike a coyote or hawk."

Some of the cultures depict Bigfoot as a gentle being, while others describe him as a man-eating monster.

Strain said that this is typical of native cultures, which often give animals god-like powers of good or evil.
 
I must admit like her work, mostly due to the little cyber-interaction I had with her here. She seems to be pretty aware of the limitations of the data she deals with, much more than Meldrum, for example. Kathy Strain IMHO seems to be the best footer around so far.
 
I have to wonder why no one seems to notice the obvious in the written history of this planet. On every single continent, there are written and verbal historical records that say Sasquatch has repeatedly, over many centuries, taken human women to Mate them, and produced kids that lived. Biology 101 people!!! This would not be able to happen unless Sasquatch was human!!!

Cats mate cats, dogs mate dogs, horses mate horses, etc. HUMANS MATE HUMANS. It is so obvious, how come no one has gone majorly public with this fact???

The DNA test on tissue, blood, and hair from Canada (that lake?) was conclusively human, with only one nucleotide different, that chimps share. The one man actually said that because it was so human, he had to assume that the samples were corrupted, on another sample. I know I'm not being very specific.

But the proof is obvious. Since children were born, and grew up, the DNA had to be compatible with ours, and THAT MAKES THEM HUMAN.

Why are we talking about killing one to prove they exist???

Oh, and that leads me to even more proof!!! When Mt. St. Helens exploded in 1980, 30 or so Sasquatch were killed, and the bodies were gathered up by our government, hauled off, and put in storage. The rangers and civilians involved in the cleanup, were told to keep their mouths shut. (Coverup again, in the name of so called national security.) Some reported what they saw.

That is more proof, if we can pry the bodies out of their hands. Freedom of information act?

We have proof. Why would they cover this up, unless they knew they weren't Apes??!!

They don't want people studying them, because they would have to go public with the fact that they have lived millions of years, here on earth, and that gives THEM seniority over us. They are the Ancients.

Yes, this very well could be their planet. We have only existed 300,000 years.

Tianca
 
You might be interested in this;
(From : Traditional Attitudes Toward Bigfoot in Many North American Cultures, By Gayle Highpine)
Originally printed in the Western Bigfoot Society Newsletter "The Track Record". Excerpted from "Legends Beyond Psychology", by Henry James Franzoni III. Reprinted with permission from all parties.
"Here in the Northwest, and west of the Rockies generally, Indian people regard Bigfoot with great respect. He is seen as a special kind of being, because of his obvious close relationship with humans. Some elders regard him as standing on the "border" between animal-style consciousness and human-style consciousness, which gives him a special kind of power. (It is not that Bigfoot's relationship to make him "superior" to other animals; in Indian culture, unlike western culture, animals are not regarded as "inferior" to humans but rather as "elder brothers" and "teachers" of humans. But tribal cultures everywhere are based on relationship and kinship; the closer the kinship, the stronger the bond. Man Indian elders in the Northwest refuse to eat bear meat because of the bear's similarity to humans, and Bigfoot is obviously much more similar to humans than is the bear. As beings who blend the "natural knowledge" of animals with something of the distinctive type of consciousness called "intelligence" that humans have, Bigfoot is regarded as a special type of being."
"But, special being as he is, I have never heard anyone from a Northwestern tribe suggest that Bigfoot is anything other than a physical being, living in the same physical dimensions as humans and other animals. He eats, he sleeps, he poops, he cares for his family members. However, among many Indians elsewhere in North America... as widely separated at the Hopi, the Sioux, the Iroquois, and the Northern Athabascan -- Bigfoot is seen more as a sort of supernatural or spirit being, whose appearance to humans is always meant to convey some kind of message."
"The Lakota, or western Sioux, call Bigfoot Chiye-tanka (Chiha-tanka in Dakota or eastern Sioux); "chiye" means "elder brother" and "tanka" means "great" or "big". In English, though, the Sioux usually call him "the big man". In his book "In the Spirit of Crazy Horse," (Viking, 1980), a non-fiction account of the events dramatized by the excellent recent movie "Thunderheart", author Peter Mathiessen recorded some comments about Bigfoot made by traditional Sioux people and some members of other Indian nations. Joe Flying By, a Hunkpapa Lakota, told Mathiessen, "I think the Big Man is a kind of husband of Unk-ksa, the earth, who is wise in the way of anything with its own natural wisdom. Sometimes we say that this One is a kind of reptile from the ancient times who can take a big hairy form; I also think he can change into a coyote. Some of the people who saw him did not respect what they were seeing, and they are already gone."
"There is your Big man standing there, ever waiting, ever present, like the coming of a new day," Oglala Lakota Medicine Man Pete Catches km told Mathiessen. "He is both spirit and real being, but he can also glide through the forest, like a moose with big antlers, as though the trees weren't there... I know him as my brother... I want him to touch me, just a touch, a blessing, something I could bring home to my sons and grandchildren, that I was there, that I approached him, and he touched me."

Ray Owen, son of a Dakota spiritual leader from Prairie Island Reservation in Minnesota, told a reporter from (the) Red Wing (Minnesota) Republican Eagle, "They exist in another dimension from us, but can appear in this dimension whenever they have a reason to. See, it's like there are many levels, many dimensions. When our time in this one is finished, we move on to the next, but the Big Man can go between. The Big Man comes from God. He's our big brother, kind of looks out for us. Two years ago, we were going downhill, really self-destructive. We needed a sign to put us back on track, and that's why the Big Man appeared".
Ralph Gray Wolf, a visiting Athapaskan Indian from Alaska, told the reporter, "In our way of beliefs, they make appearances at troubled times", to help troubled Indian communities "get more in tune with Mother Earth". Bigfoot brings "signs or messages that there is a need to change, a need to cleanse," (Minn. news article, "Giant Footprint Signals a Time to Seek Change," July 23,1988).
A commenter provided additional information on this term: "Rugaru" comes from the Michif language spoken by the Metis people. Michif is actually a French-Cree/ Algonquian hybrid language. The word "Rugaru" is indeed a cree pronounciation of "Loup Garou."
Mathiessen reported similar views among the Turtle Mountain Ojibway in North Dakota, that Bigfoot --- whom they call Rugaru -- "appears in symptoms of danger or psychic disruption to the community." When I read this, I wondered if it contradicted my hypothesis that the Ojibways had identified Bigfoot with Windago, the sinister cannibal-giant of their legends (see Track Record #14); I had surmised that because I had never heard of any other names for, or references to Bigfoot in Ojibway culture, even though there must have been sightings in woodlands around the Great lakes, and indeed sightings in that region have been reported by non-Indians. But the Turtle Mountain band is one of the few Ojibway bands to have moved much farther west than most of their nation; and Rugaru is not a native Ojibway word. Nor does it come from the languages of neighboring Indian peoples. However, it has a striking sound similarity to the French word for werewolf, loup-garou, and there is quite a bit of French influence among the Turtle Mountain Ojibway. (French-Canadian trappers and missionaries were the first whites that they dealt with extensively, and many tribal members today bear French surnames), so it doesn't seem far-fetched that the Turtle Mountain Ojibway picked up the French name for hairy human-like being, while at the same time taking on their neighbors positive, reverent, attitude toward Bigfoot. After all, the Plains Cree -- even though they retain a memory of their eastern cousins tradition of the Wetiko (as the Windigo is called in Cree) -- have seemed similarly to take on the western tribes view of Bigfoot as they moved west.
The Hopi elders say that the increasing appearances of Bigfoot are not only a message or warning to the individuals or communities to whom he appears, but to humankind at large. As Mathiessen puts it, they see Bigfoot as "a messenger who appears in evil times as a warning from the Creator that man's disrespect for His sacred instructions has upset the harmony and balance of existence." To the Hopi, the "big hairy man" is just one form that the messenger can take.
The Iroquois (Six Nations Confederacy) of the Northeast -- although they live in close proximity to the eastern Algonkian tribes with their Windigo legends -- view Bigfoot much in the same way the Hopi do, as a messenger from the Creator trying to warn humans to change their ways or face disaster. However, mentioned among Iroquois much more often than Bigfoot are the "little people" who are said to inhabit the Adirondacks mountains. I never heard any first-hand stories among the Iroqouis about encounters with these "little people" -- for that matter, I never heard and first-hand stories in that region about Bigfoot, either -- but the Iroquois pass down stories about hunters who occasionally saw small human-like beings in the Adirondacks (which are not all that far from the Catskills, where Rip Van Winkle was alleged to have met some little bowlers) (and slept for 100 years -HF). Some present-day Iroquois assert that the "little people" are still there, just not seen as often because the Iroquois don't spend as much time hunting up in the mountains as they used to. many Iroquois seem to regard both Bigfoot and the "little people" as spiritual or interdimensional beings who can enter or leave our physical dimension as they please, and choose to whom they present themselves, always for a reason.
Stories about small, humanoids who inhabit wild places are found in many areas of the world, especially Europe. (The Kiowa tell a story about several young men who decide to go exploring south from their Texas home for many days, seeing many new things, until they came to a strange forest [obviously the jungles of southern Mexico] whose trees were home to small, furred humanoids with tails! This they found to be too weird, so they immediately headed back for home). I never thought to connect the stories about the "little people" with the Sasquatch until Ray Crowe brought up the possible connection. After all, if there may be large relatives of humans living in remote areas, would it be so impossible for there to be small ones? Details that stretch credibility, such as pots of gold, pointed and belled caps, games of ninepins, etc., could conceivably be embellishments added over generations to some genuine accounts of sightings.
Throughout Native North America, Bigfoot is seen as a kind of "brother" to humans. Even among those eastern Algonkian tribes to whom Bigfoot represents the incarnation of the Windigo -- the human who is transformed into a cannibalistic monster by tasting human flesh in time of starvation -- his fearsomeness comes from his very closeness to humans. The Windigo is the embodiment of the hidden, terrifying temptation within them to turn to eating other humans when no other food is to be had. he was still their "elder brother", but a brother who represented a human potential they feared. As such, the Windigo's appearance was sort of a constant warning to them, a reminder that a community whose members turn to eating each other is doomed much more surely than a community that simply has no food. So the figure of the Windigo is not so far removed from the figure of the "messenger" coming to warn humankind of impending disaster if it doesn't cease its destruction of nature.
The existence of Bigfoot is taken for granted throughout Native North America, and so are his powerful psychic abilities. I can't count the number of times that I have heard elder Indian people say that Bigfoot knows when humans are searching for him and that he chooses when and to whom to make an appearance, and that his psychic powers account for his ability to elude the white man's efforts to capture him or hunt him down. In Indian culture, the entire natural world -- the animals, the plants, the rivers, the stars -- is seen as a family. And Bigfoot is seen as one of our close relatives, the "great elder brother"

I hope this helps.
Tianca
 

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