My Bad (Former LCF Mod)

[Temecula]

I must have joined LCF after your time. I never got an email. Or any explanation whatsoever.

Russ Pickering offered to reinstate me if I agreed to behave, but I couldn't figure out for the life of me what I did to mis-behave or why I might want to go back.

In any event, welcome to the JREF Forums. There's a lot more to see than just conspiracy stuff. Feel free to poke around and have fun. But, keep an open mind and try to learn while you're at it. It's fun!

I've been browsing this forum for like 2 years now. I even tried to register once a year or so ago, but got denied possibly because I wouldn't provide my real name. I love the cryptozoology stuff on here and RSLancaster's SSB site.

 

[bill smith]

Firstly thank you to all for the positive and friendly comments. I do recognize names such as ref and Oliver from back in the day on LCF. I believe It was LCF 2.0 that I returned to with the new identity of "Cabbages" (I had a whole assumed identity for that name, a guy with poor English skills whose name was actually Kebbechez but everyone at work called him Cabbages) who was obsessed with 9/11 being caused by some medical gas company that used 'bad gas' to make people hallucinate the planes. He was kind of my attack on both the gullibility of the truth movement and the outrageous claims of the 'TV Fakery' CT subset. I think I even took that character to the SLC forums briefly. It was great fun. Between that venture and the occasional trolling under other names I came to recognize a few skeptic names. I myself was banned once from 2.0 for having the name "Why Won't God Heal Amputees".

Secondly, I did complete the 'ex-truther' inquiry form supplied earlier and bumped it's thread with my response.


Much like falling in the CT hole, crawling out was kind of gradual. I remember most of all it was the fringe elements that had at one time been the mainstays of 9/11 truth, such as Killtown that really supercharged my doubts of the validity of the truth movement's claims, and more or less drove me into the arms of skepticism. His "flight 93 plume analysis" was the first time I had really critically picked apart something form the 9/11 CT, and I remember how frustrating it was trying to explain such a simple, basic concept to a person and have then cover their ears and close their eyes and pretend it wasn't there. It helped me realize that I was often doing the same thing. I also remember the person using the name "Quest" arranging to call my house to discuss something about the forum rules when i was a moderator, and him just screaming into the phone about TV fakery being real for 20 minutes. I couldn't ignore the inherent insanity of the other truth movement adherents forever. I guess it's a lot of factors over a a period of time. The bottom line though is that if there were not skeptics there creating friction, asking questions and demanding answers, the seeds of doubt would have never been planted.

To answer other questions, No I am not from Temecula, CA. I just like the sound of the word Temecula. I've never been farther west than Lincoln, NE. It was 2006 when i began in the truth movement, making me about 30 years old. I Imagine I was involved heart and soul for about a year give or take.

To me you sound like somebody who has decided to leave one club in favour of another. Knowing the truth about 9/11 is not something you can be persuaded to change your mind about. It's not a matter of choice.
I get the impression that the personalities you were dealing with had more to do with your change of heart than any true conviction.

 

[timhau]

To me you sound like somebody who has decided to leave one club in favour of another. Knowing the truth about 9/11 is not something you can be persuaded to change your mind about. It's not a matter of choice.

Yes, the Gods of Twoof either step down from their True Abode and touch you, or they don't. And when they do, you get some of this:

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Welcome to the New World Order, Temecula.

Pick up your ID card from Sheila in HR as soon as you can.

Things have been a little busy here, so your INDOC is going to be short.

You're going to be put on Chemtrail Dispersion Team Alpha. ElMondoHummus is your squad leader for Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Be sure to get at least two coats over billsmith's house. That person just keeps seeing right through the ruse.

Tuesday, you'll maintain surveillance on Dr. Judy Wood. Make sure to kill the power to her laboratory right before she manages to successfully replicate the Hutchison Effect.

Thursday, you gotta shine Moloch. I know, it's not as glamorous as helping Larry Silverstein count his money on a pile of baby skulls and blasting caps, but let's face it - you're the FNG, and you gotta pay dues.

Saturday there's an absolutely faboo chili cookout, and perhaps some bocce.

Sunday's all yours after you embed the sublims into the Christian broadcasts.

Welcome aboard, and watch out for Hokulele. When she bites, it feels like a thousand needles injecting molten hot lava into your bone marrow. Best to stay out of her way until you've got a name tag at least.

 

[Temecula]

To me you sound like somebody who has decided to leave one club in favour of another.
I get the impression that the personalities you were dealing with had more to do with your change of heart than any true conviction.

I guess that would make sense, had I actually left the truth movement BS and went directly into some sort of hardcore skepticism... which was not the case. I abandoned the CT mindset ultimately because i had found that it was wrong. A variety of things led me to this conclusion, including, but certainly not limited to, having dealt with some of the personalities therein. It did not occur overnight. Furthermore, once I had separated myself from the 9/11 CT cult, It was quite a while before I had any direct involvement with anything skeptical. To this day the only direct involvement or communication I have had with the skeptical community, or club as you call, has been one email exchange between myself and 2 of the people from 'The Atheist Experience' podcast, and then registering for this forum the other day. That's it. I'm sorry, but your hypothesis is a complete failure.

Knowing the truth about 9/11 is not something you can be persuaded to change your mind about. It's not a matter of choice.

At first I laughed at this comment, it reminded me of the sort of garbage you would see leveled at skeptics on the LC forums. But after thinking about it, it is correct to some extent. A person certainly has no choice in belief, something I recognize because it is the first clear flaw in Pascal's wager. The problem with your statement is the assumption that previous to my 'conversion' I had some sort of absolute knowledge of the "truth about 9/11", "knowing the truth". That's utter BS... I only thought I knew the truth about 9/11. It turned out all I had were unsupported assertions about 9/11. My beliefs regarding 9/11 did indeed change but not by choice. My beliefs changed because my standards for belief had changed, I no longer believe what I WANT to believe, but instead I only have belief when justified by evidence. There is no evidence to justify the belief that "9/11 was an inside job".

 

[bill smith]

I guess that would make sense, had I actually left the truth movement BS and went directly into some sort of hardcore skepticism... which was not the case. I abandoned the CT mindset ultimately because i had found that it was wrong. A variety of things led me to this conclusion, including, but certainly not limited to, having dealt with some of the personalities therein. It did not occur overnight. Furthermore, once I had separated myself from the 9/11 CT cult, It was quite a while before I had any direct involvement with anything skeptical. To this day the only direct involvement or communication I have had with the skeptical community, or club as you call, has been one email exchange between myself and 2 of the people from 'The Atheist Experience' podcast, and then registering for this forum the other day. That's it. I'm sorry, but your hypothesis is a complete failure.



At first I laughed at this comment, it reminded me of the sort of garbage you would see leveled at skeptics on the LC forums. But after thinking about it, it is correct to some extent. A person certainly has no choice in belief, something I recognize because it is the first clear flaw in Pascal's wager. The problem with your statement is the assumption that previous to my 'conversion' I had some sort of absolute knowledge of the "truth about 9/11", "knowing the truth". That's utter BS... I only thought I knew the truth about 9/11. It turned out all I had were unsupported assertions about 9/11. My beliefs regarding 9/11 did indeed change but not by choice. My beliefs changed because my standards for belief had changed, I no longer believe what I WANT to believe, but instead I only have belief when justified by evidence. There is no evidence to justify the belief that "9/11 was an inside job".

It stands out like a sore thumb that you were never really a Truther whatever the apearances.

For instance what Truther would refer to the Truth movement in the third person as you do in the following exerpt from one of your posts ?

''...such as Killtown that really supercharged my doubts of the validity of the truth movement's claims...''

It's as plain as the nose on your face.

 

[timhau]

I guess that would make sense, had I actually left the truth movement BS and went directly into some sort of hardcore skepticism... which was not the case. I abandoned the CT mindset ultimately because i had found that it was wrong.

What sort of an idea is that? Instead of joining an online club and copying your opinions and ideas from there, you thought for yourself and then looked for like-minded individuals? You can't do that on teh internetz!!

 

[DC]

It stands out like a sore thumb that you were never really a Truther whatever the apearances.

For instance what Truther would refer to the Truth movement in the third person as you do in the following exerpt from one of your posts ?

''...such as Killtown that really supercharged my doubts of the validity of the truth movement's claims...''

It's as plain as the nose on your face.

I saw myself never as a member of the truth movement. maybe that is the key got escape the cult.

when truther make more effort to produce DVD's than they make effort to produce a sound theory or produce evidence. one must ask themself, how much are people like Dr. Jones or Richard Gage really beliving in their own conspiracy theorys?

 

[bill smith]

I saw myself never as a member of the truth movement. maybe that is the key got escape the cult.

when truther make more effort to produce DVD's than they make effort to produce a sound theory or produce evidence. one must ask themself, how much are people like Dr. Jones or Richard Gage really beliving in their own conspiracy theorys?

You should look up one of your fellow-countrymen here on the jref if you do not already know of him. Anders Bjorkman aka 'Heiwa' Swedish Naval architect and structural damage analyst- has advised the United Nations in his technical caacity as an expert. Unchallenged in the field of the destruction of WTC1.

 

[Temecula]

It stands out like a sore thumb that you were never really a Truther whatever the apearances.

For instance what Truther would refer to the Truth movement in the third person as you do in the following exerpt from one of your posts ?

''...such as Killtown that really supercharged my doubts of the validity of the truth movement's claims...''

It's as plain as the nose on your face.

It's like you read a book about logical fallacies and set forth to use every one of them, without realizing they are a bad thing.

When did i refer to the truth movement from the third person? Oh yeah, about an hour ago. Was I a 'truther' an hour ago? No. What is even more disturbing is that truthers were (and still are, as evidenced by your use of it in this very post) referring to the truth movement as the truth movement".

Just a recap: You just referred to "The Truth Movement" as "The Truth Movement" in the same post that you invoke the "No True Scotsman" fallacy against me because I referred to "The Truth Movement" as "The Truth Movement"

Wow. Just, wow.

 

[DC]

You should look up one of your fellow-countrymen here on the jref if you do not already know of him. Anders Bjorkman aka 'Heiwa' Swedish Naval architect and structural damage analyst- has advised the United Nations in his technical caacity as an expert. Unchallenged in the field of the destruction of WTC1.

i know him, i have read most of his stuff, i seen him "debating" here.

Maybe you should study an atlas or a globe instead of 9/11.

Sweden != Switzerland

 

[bill smith]

It's like you read a book about logical fallacies and set forth to use every one of them, without realizing they are a bad thing.

When did i refer to the truth movement from the third person? Oh yeah, about an hour ago. Was I a 'truther' an hour ago? No. What is even more disturbing is that truthers were (and still are, as evidenced by your use of it in this very post) referring to the truth movement as the truth movement".

Just a recap: You just referred to "The Truth Movement" as "The Truth Movement" in the same post that you invoke the "No True Scotsman" fallacy against me because I referred to "The Truth Movement" as "The Truth Movement"

Wow. Just, wow.

Wow you sound almost like a true jref person already, terminology and all.

Just to reprint the exerpt and have another look-see....

''...such as Killtown that really supercharged my doubts of the validity of the truth movement's claims...''

You see whether it was last year or last week you make it obvious that you were working off other people's convictions rather than your own.

You speak about the ''.. truth movement's claims..'' clearly spelling out that you had no conviction of your own. Therefore it is an easy matter to say that you were never a real Truther. Perhaps a camp-follower, but never a person of personal conviction on the subject.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Anders Bjorkman aka 'Heiwa' Swedish Naval architect and structural damage analyst- has advised the United Nations in his technical caacity as an expert. Unchallenged in the field of the destruction of WTC1.

Wow. Heiwa most certainly is challenged in this regard. He's been spanked on this forum many times, his credibility is suspect, and the largest challenge that seems to face him is reality itself.

I had one interchange with him on this forum, and have had no desire to repeat the experience.

 

[Temecula]

Wow you sund almost like a true jref person already, terminology an all.

Just to reprint the exerpt and have another look-see....

''...such as Killtown that really supercharged my doubts of the validity of the truth movement's claims...''

You see whether it was last year or last week you make it obvious that you were working off other people's convictions rather than your own.

You speak about the ''.. truth movement's claims..'' clearly spelling out that you had no conviction of your own. Therefore it is an easy matter to say that you were never a real Truther. Phaps a camp-follower, but never a person of personal conviction on the subject.

Your error here is that you do not realize, or rather fail to admit, that the essence of the truth movement is, as you phrase it, "working off other people's convictions rather than your own"... and adding to that I'll say that's the only choice you have. If you fall out of lockstep, you are immediately subjected to a barrage of nonsense-based accusations and marginalization, very similar to the posts you have directed at me here. Seems quite typical of a cult.

 

[bill smith]

i know him, i have read most of his stuff, i seen him "debating" here.

Maybe you should study an atlas or a globe instead of 9/11.

Sweden != Switzerland

Oops...sorry about that.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Oops...sorry aout that.

We'll put it on your "Mistakes Payable" account.

 

[bill smith]

Your error here is that you do not realize, or rather fail to admit, that the essence of the truth movement is, as you phrase it, "working off other people's convictions rather than your own"... and adding to that I'll say that's the only choice you have. If you fall out of lockstep, you are immediately subjected to a barrage of nonsense-based accusations and marginalization, very similar to the posts you have directed at me here. Seems quite typical of a cult.

You are just reinforcing the impression that you are not a person of conviction. Your argument inyariably devolves into personality and management issues.

I do not believe you were ever a real Truther. There is no feel of the convert about you either. I think you are masquerading as a convert but the bell of authenticity is not ringing.

 

[grandthefttoaster]

Something that you will notice is that when someone says that they used to believe in 9/11 conspiracies, and don't anymore, the conspiranoids jump on it and claim that you were never a true believer and must be lying.

Really, there is no point in arguing about it at that point.

 

[EnJaySee]

Something that you will notice is that when someone says that they used to believe in 9/11 conspiracies, and don't anymore, the conspiranoids jump on it and claim that you were never a true believer and must be lying.

Really, there is no point in arguing about it at that point.

Roundabout thinking at its best.

You were never truly part of the TM because if you were, you'd still be in the TM. But since you're not a believer, then you were never really one to begin with.

 

[stateofgrace]

You are just reinforcing the impression that you are not a person of conviction. Your argument inyariably devolves into personality and management issues.

I do not believe you were ever a real Truther. There is no feel of the convert about you either. I think you are masquerading as a convert but the bell of authenticity is not ringing.

He changed his mind Bill. I know in Crazy Town this may seem impossible, but please rest assured it is the norm on planet earth, normal people exercise this option quite often. I could try and explain this simple concept to you but I guess a simple explanation would also be beyond your grasp.