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Moon Hoax conspiracy

Because human life is a bit more precious than a tin can with a computer on it.

I agree with you, human life is more precious than inanimate objects.

But can you now agree that at a minimum, we have successfully sent unmanned missions to the moon and back? If not, I'm not sure how much further we can carry on this discussion, because I think any reasonable person must accept that the two facts I cited prove irrefutably that we have.
 
Again, in case somebody missed it, let's recap:
In 1969 computer chips had not been invented. The maximum computer memory was 256k, and this was housed in a large air conditioned building. In 2002 a top of the range computer requires at least 64 Mb of memory to run a simulated Moon landing, and that does not include the memory required to take off again once landed. The alleged computer on board Apollo 11 had 32k of memory. That's the equivalent of a simple calculator.


Got it. They simply didn't have the technology to go to the moon. But then, on where the reflector and moon rocks came from:

How do we know it was a manned craft that left the reflector?
How do you know they werent collected by an unmanned craft, or fell to earth as meteorites?

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!! Unmanned.... when they didn't have the tech- HAAAAAHAHAHAHA!!!

I'm sorry. I love it. I absolutely love it.

Just blindly grasping at whatever, to keep the argument going. No idea what he's talking about, no background, no nothing. Just copying and pasting random quotes from conspiracy websites, seeing how long he can keep it going.
 
Because human life is a bit more precious than a tin can with a computer on it.
i thought the computers were so stupid back then you couldnt land on the moon even with a human pilot, but now the computer is doing it all by its lonesome?

bear in mind it takes 1.25 seconds for light from the moon to reach earth, this means there is a 2.5 second turnaround time, so remote control is out of the question
 
i would guess the same reason they had to bring special equipment to measure the radiation, normal film isnt effected by it

so have you dropped the claim of this being your first exposure to moon landing conspiracies?

The camera said to be used on the moon was called the Hasselblad Super Wide Camera with Zeiss Biogon 38mm lens and manual operation. (Let’s not even get into the fact that the cameras were strapped onto the astronaut’s chests and they had no idea what they were photographing – there was no viewfinder).
When Actor Michael Plain’s crew filmed at the South Pole, the exterior temperature was about -22 F. Michael Plain stated that the Hasselblad cameras were seizing up as a result of the cold. If the Hasselblad seized up at -22 F, how would it work on the moon in temperatures more than 6x as cold?

When NASA’s Brian Welch was asked how the film stock was able to withstand the extreme temperature range on the moon, he responded by saying, “
Well actually, the film was specially produced for NASA by Kodak. It involved the use of thin gels and special emulsions for this film. The idea was that it would have to stand up to a vacuum, extremes of heat and cold on the surface of the Moon.”



If Kodak developed special film for the lunar missions, THEY ARE NOT AWARE OF IT. Kodak claims that the film they provided was in fact standard Ektachrome 64 ASA, used on earth. Which leaves us with the question still, how could the camera possibly work on the moon and even if it did how did the film come out visible?



Film is altered by a mere 5 rems of radiation. On the way to the moon the astronauts were exposed to 500 rems of radiation, which is enough to result in nausea, vomiting and diarrhea (100% chance within four hours), damage to the gastrointestinal tract, cataracts, loss of vision, bone marrow damage (Moderate to severe), and a 100% chance of permanent sterility within one to two hours. I’ll deeply discuss radiation in my next article. Think about at the airport when you have to put your camera in a lead box to pass through the detector, if you don’t the film will be ruined by radiation. Even in severe sunlight film can be destroyed. Not one of the Apollo pictures has any sign of radiation damage. The astronaut’s suits would need to have been made of lead to protect them from radiation. No lead was present on the space suits or on the rocket.

http://nicholasweiss.com/NASA2.html
 
Because such a device does require manual alignment. With modern technology, we probably could easily make a robot that does this automatically. But given the technology of the era, which YOU made an issue earlier, that was not going to happen.

I don't like taking the side of a CTer, but if I recall correctly, this device essentially consists of an array of small "half-cube" mirrors. Imagine a cube with 3 sides removed - with each interior surface being a mirror. With this setup, a light source such as a laser will always be reflected straight back to the source, so the device only really needs to be pointing in the general direction of Earth which, on the Moon, is up.

It would probably be possible to land such a device with an automated spacecraft, but I think landing an automated spacecraft on the Moon would have been harder in 1969 than landing a manned spacecraft. The spacecraft would have needed to perform an automated controlled descent on retro rockets - parachutes don't work that well up there.
 
Okay, let's be really anal retentive about this then:

ERichardson, do you agree that Van Allen Belt radiation is not lethal to astronauts? Yes, or no?
 
When Actor Michael Plain’s crew filmed at the South Pole, the exterior temperature was about -22 F. Michael Plain stated that the Hasselblad cameras were seizing up as a result of the cold. If the Hasselblad seized up at -22 F, how would it work on the moon in temperatures more than 6x as cold?
i cant say for certain, but i would gather moisture was a big factor here

Film is altered by a mere 5 rems of radiation.
5 rems for how long? (time is a key factor in radiation exposure)

On the way to the moon the astronauts were exposed to 500 rems of radiation
500 rems for how long? (time is a key factor in radiation exposure)

would this be the radition level inside or outside of the capsule?


so shoudl i take this as an admission of your lies in your introductory post?
 
or that too

all i know is ive sent cameras and film through xrays at the airport and never had problems



It's pretty standard that you don't allow exposed 35mm motion film negative to x-rays...

I'm not entirely sure that it's a "will definately corrupt the image" so much as a "we spent 3 million dollars on this project and aren't about to take the risk"

-Gumboot
 
Because such a device does require manual alignment. With modern technology, we probably could easily make a robot that does this automatically. But given the technology of the era, which YOU made an issue earlier, that was not going to happen.

Yeah, right. They've got a 6 foot CORE SAMPLE! What unmaneed craft did that? They also, all told, have 800 KILOGRAMS of Moon rocks. The only unmanned carft to collect samples from the moon up to that point was the Russian craft that brough back something like 18 GRAMS of MOON DUST.

Right, A 6 foot CORE SAMPLE, fell to Earth. Also, you realise that Moon meteorites have very distinct differences to the Moon rocks Apollo brought back?

FURTHERMORE, the total number of Moon meteorites found to date on Earth is less than maybe a few Kilos, at most. The only thing rarer is Mars Meteorites.

Don't make me laugh. Start thinking and stop knee-jerking to scientific proof.

Would someone quote me so the scardey cat can see what it means to him when he doesn't think things through?
Read, ER, and learn. As if that's possible with you, but you cannot say we didn't try.
 
It's pretty standard that you don't allow exposed 35mm motion film negative to x-rays...

I'm not entirely sure that it's a "will definately corrupt the image" so much as a "we spent 3 million dollars on this project and aren't about to take the risk"

-Gumboot
i know its a standard precaution...but ive forgotten and left exposed and unexposed rolls of film in my bag more often than i care to admit :covereyes
 
Well first I want to say that given this thread is 7 pages in only about 7 hours, it just shows how much more popular Apollo is than 9/11, lol.

Second, I'm not going to bother quoting exactly because I can't be fragged going back through 7 pages for the exact quotes, and I'm not planning to do a deep debunk of most things because they have already been brought up. So....

The Van Allen Belts.

Unlike the Electromagnetic Radiation of an X-Ray, the Van Allen Belts consist of high speed particles. Particles can be stopped by various things, though Metal is one of the worse to do it however as it created an electromagnetic braking radiation. Low density metals are good, and so are high density polymers and water. Beta radiation, such as the protons and elections of the VA Belts, can be stopped by as little as 10cm of the appropriate material.

The Apollo CM was not just made of a thin sheet of Aluminium but was actually a very thick walled craft. The thin pressure hulls were on the LM, (Note here that it is LM, not LEM. The "Excursion" was removed from the Landing Module's name almost as soon as it was thought off, and LEM is nowadays used almost exclusively by the Hoax Proponents and their Followers) and the crew was never in the LM while passing through the VA Belts. However besides the pressure hull, the LM had a large amount of thermal blanketing on the outside and internal walls and insulation to protect the pressure hull from the astronauts.

The CM had thick walls made up of sheets of low density Aluminium metal and thick layers of material matting for insulation. This matting worked very effectively against the particle radiation of the belts and didn't produce the breaking radiation.

Finally, even large doses of radiation are not necessarily fatal. I watched a documentary a few months back where the crew walked into the control room at Chernobyl, one of the most radioactive parts of the plant. Chernobyl was still operating for years after the accident with people working there quite easily (though not in that control room.) As long as the exposure time is short, then the damage is easy to repair. The Apollo Crews received a total exposure level of about a Year's worth of radiation in 10 days. A significant amount yes, but well below the danger level. The ISS and shuttle crews receive far more on their trips.

Microchips and Computing Power

As has been pointed out, the Microchip was invented in 1959, an entire decade before Apollo. Also as has been pointed out, a computer running a landing simulation has to be able to run the operating system, the graphics, simulate the physics and land the craft. The Apollo Computer had to just had to turn a bunch of thrusters on and off and point the nozzle in the right direction. How hard is that?

Not only that, but most of its programming was on ROM, not like today's computers that use RAM. Since the computer was only designed to run one programme, that programme could be hardcoded onto a chip rather then uploading it into volatile memory. All the RAM was used for was for temporary storage of numbers in calculations. How much memory do you need for that?

Next, all the really hard stuff was calculated on the ground with huge mainframe computers at Mission Control and the results of those calculations uploaded to the AGC. It didn't have to crunch be numbers it just needed the results so it could run them through the hardcoded programmes to know where to point the nozzle. How much computing power do you need for that?

Finally, not a lot of computing power was needed because it had two of the most sophisticated computers out there onboard, the brains inside the crew. (Three if we're talking the CM.) The Project Mercury flights were all conducted without a flight computer, Project Gemini being the first top have one, and even some of it's missions were completed without the computer. During Buzz Aldrin's flight on Gemini XII, the flight computer failed, and they did the docking with Buzz using a Sextant and his eyes after calculating the docking in his head. Just because people rely on calculators and computers for everything nowadays, doesn't mean it was always the case. During WWI and II plenty of crews flew bomber missions over enemy airspace without any electronic navigation, and did so very successfully. Computers aren't needed, they just make things easier.

Footage of them Faking the Mission.

The claim here varies depending on who you listen too. Sibrel started out by claiming that they used a round window or a cut-out to make the round window. Percy claims that it was a Transparency. In more recent time, Sibrel has followed on this line of thinking.

Problems with the claim:

1) The Earth rotates slightly throughout the filming showing it is not a static object, but not enough for them to have been in Low Earth Orbit.
2) The weather patterns change between each of the three broadcasts, but remain consistent during each broadcast, something that would be impossible if taken from low earth orbit.
3) In the second broadcast (which the HP's conveniently ignore) the Camera switches windows, zooming out on the earth first, showing the window, then moving to a second window and focusing back in on the Earth.
4) Most of the so called "secret footage" was part of the 1969 Apollo 11 live telecast
5) Sibrel gets the date of the Broadcast wrong.

I have more on this particular scene on my webpage

Temperature In Space.

Put quite simple, space cannot have a temperature. Temperature is a measure of the vibration of molecules, the greater the vibration, the higher the temperature. Without particles, there is no temperature. Since a vacuum is defined as a lack of particles, there is by definition no temperature.

So what about the thermometer? A thermometer doesn't show you the temperature of its surroundings, it shows you the temperature of the Thermometer. I underlined that to make sure you understand it. When you place a Thermometer in dark space, it will radiate away its heat until its temperature hits about 3K (about -270°C.) This isn't the Temperature of Space, it is the temperature of an object in space. Can you understand the difference? Hopefully because we're going in deeper.

The 3K reading is what you get when your are nowhere near a star. Now if you get close to a star, like our sun, then you get more than just the CMB radiation and so the temperature of your object goes up. Space still has no temperature, but your thermometer will rise because it is warming up. This is why the Moon's surface doesn't have a Temperature of -270°C, but rather varies from -150°C to 150°C over a time period of 28 days. Note here that the temperature is NOT 150°C in the light and -150°C in the shade. These are maximum and minimum temperatures throughout the Lunar day. It takes time for the Temperature to rise from -150°C to get to 150°C, it's not instant.

During the later missions, the ground reached around 80-90°C during the final EVA, rather hot to touch with your bare hand, but far colder that a frying pan which you can lift up by its handle. In the same way you can pick up an frying pan by the handle, or touch the outside of your oven while the roast is cooking, the Astronaut's suits insulated them from the ground's temperature.

An interesting tale here. One of the Astronauts accidentally touched a sample that had been sitting in the shade of the LM for a while, and had cooled, after they got it inside. It was so cold it gave him a frost burn. Also on Apollo 12, Bean and Conrad commented on being able to just feel the heat of the RTG through their gloves, and that that was far hotter then the lunar surface ever got.

The PLSS and Air Con.

Because the Astronauts were in suits that were insulated against the heat, their own body heat would build up inside the suits, and so they needed to be cooled. This was done via two methods. The first was a water weave garment that ran a series of water filled tubes over their body allowing the body to warm the water and in doing so remove excess heat. The water was then pumped through a heat exchanger and recycled. The water from the heat exchanger was slowly pushed through a porous nickel plate and sublimed into the vacuum of space. This system was highly effective, and is still used by the Space Shuttle and ISS crews to this day, as well as being used as part of the cooling systems for those two craft (it was also used on the Apollo Craft for cooling.) The second way to cool was by cooling the oxygen in the suit. This was removed about the waist, the CO2[ scrubbed, more oxygen added to return it to the 3 psi partial pressure of the suit, then it was feed through the same heat exchanger as the water, and finally pumped back into the suit via the back of the helmet. (This helped to prevent misting, a problem that had plagued Gemini.) To operate the system, the Astronaut had a level on the bottom of the PLSS that he could set into one of three positions, low, intermediate, or high. This lever operated a valve that controlled the rate the water was feed to the subliminator and thus how fast the astronaut was cooled.

The Battery in the PLSS had very little to do, it had to run a pump and a fan and a few other little electronic parts for up to 9 hours (Sorry Gumboot[/url], but only Apollo 11 were out for 2 1/1 hours, the later 'J' missions were outside for nearly to 8 hours at a time, however they had the extended PLSS system which had an increased oxygen and water supply), that was it, and the batteries were replaced on each EVA along with topping up the water and oxygen tanks. Are you going to try and claim that there was no battery available in 1969 that would have lasted 9 hours?

More on the PLSS can be found on my Apollo 9 page

No-one died on the Missions, but the Shuttle has suffered Fatal accidents.

The Apollo missions were far from trouble free, nearly every successful mission was dogged by some fault that could have resulted in the mission being failed, and in one case (Apollo 13) the accident was very close to fatal. However, there were only 11 manned Apollo missions (not including the three Spacelab or the joint Apollo-Soyuz missions.) The Space Shuttle has had 116 missions at current count. The first Fatal accident on the Shuttle was sts-51L, over 4 times the number of Apollo flights. Add to that that the Shuttle is a far more complex machine that the Apollo capsules and that its launch configuration (which is what lead to both accidents) is totally different, you are comparing Apples and Crowbars.

For more on Accident and incidents of the Apollo Programme, see my Apollo 13 page

I think that covers most of it, but I'm sure there'll be more.
 
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i know its a standard precaution...but ive forgotten and left exposed and unexposed rolls of film in my bag more often than i care to admit :covereyes


I imagine it's one of those random "sometimes" things. Considering how many photos the astronauts took, and how few have been released, I imagine it's possible some were indeed rejected due to distortions caused by radiation.

-Gumboot
 
I don't like taking the side of a CTer, but if I recall correctly, this device essentially consists of an array of small "half-cube" mirrors. Imagine a cube with 3 sides removed - with each interior surface being a mirror. With this setup, a light source such as a laser will always be reflected straight back to the source, so the device only really needs to be pointing in the general direction of Earth which, on the Moon, is up.

Yes, such an item would reflect that way, but if you don't align it correctly you are not going to have enough reflection. A laser pointed at the retroreflector is going to very, very wide by the time it reaches the Moon, and if the reflector is only partially aligned, you could lose 50-90% of the beam's power. As it is, the retroreflection detection on return is very weak, to have it be even less effective...no.
 
Inspired by the master. ;)

I have to confess I'm inspired by the New Zealand army... :o

Our NZ flag on the shoulder is too often mistaken for the Australian so they wear a black circle with a white kiwi in it below the flag.
-Gumboot
 
Eight pages, folks. How many pages does the average troll need to consume? Bear in mind that this is an unladen African troll.
 

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