Miracle of the Shroud IV - The Phantom Image

[Mojo]

Still replying.

 

[Mojo]

Gone again now.

 

[Aepervius]

He's re-plying?

He is certainly attempting to ply us to his idea of a process.

 

[aleCcowaN]

He is certainly attempting to ply us to his idea of a process.

I was afraid it was that

 

[Jabba]

Credentials

Agatha,

- Maybe, this will get us started.

- Don Lynn
- http://www.shroud.com/late00.htm
- Back in 1976 Don Lynn and his colleague Jean Lorre were employed at the Image Processing Laboratory of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena. At that time they were working on analysing and enhancing the images that the Viking Lander mission had been sending back from the surface of Mars. Because the techniques they were using seemed applicable to the Shroud, they were approached by the then still embryonic STURP project, leading to Don taking up a strong interest in the Shroud that would never wane. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory allowed Don and his colleague to use the Laboratory's equipment for Shroud research, just so long as the work was done in their own time. Despite intense pressure of work on the Mars images, within months Don became a participant at the Shroud conference held in Albuquerque, New Mexico, March 1977. His special contribution to Shroud studies was to show, via the then very new method of digitizing photographic images, that the Shroud's image has none of the directionality, such as left and right-hand brush-strokes, readily evident whenever paintings are studied by the same methods.

- John Heller
- http://shroudstory.com/2013/12/01/r...john-h-hellera-guest-posting-by-kelly-kearse/

- Alan Adler
- https://www.shroud.com/pdfs/n51part6.pdf

- Robert Bucklin
- https://www.shroud.com/bucklin.htm

- Ray rogers
- https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Raymon...o_studied_the_Shroud_of_Turin,_dies_at_age_77
- In 1945 he enlisted in the U.S Navy and served as a radar technician during World War II. Thanks to the GI bill, Rogers was able to complete his education at the University of Arizona, majoring in chemistry. Upon graduation in 1948 his first job was with the Arizona Agricultural Experimental Station. There he built a thermal analysis instrument to study soils, and this experience brought him to Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) in late 1951.
At LANL Rogers became a group leader of an explosives research-and-development group and was elected Laboratory Fellow in 1981. He later worked for the International Technology division, retiring in 1988. He served on the Department of the Air Force Scientific Advisory Board from 1987 until 1992 with the equivalent rank of Lt. General, receiving their Distinguished Service Award. He received other awards and recognitions from LANL and professional organizations.
Although much of Rogers' research at LANL had military applications including the characterization of exotic explosives for munitions, he was always concerned with explosives safety and chemical hazards. One of his published research results has been incorporated into a standard method for the screening of reactive materials (ASTM method E698). Today this method is used worldwide to obtain reaction rate constants for energetic materials, a necessary first step in avoiding thermal explosions.
Until he retired Rogers was an editor for the two scientific journals, Thermochimica Acta and the Journal of Energetic Materials, and throughout his career he participated in conferences and symposia related to his chosen field. His ground-breaking work in thermal analysis—particularly differential scanning calorimetry—demonstrated the effectiveness of these techniques for characterizing energetic materials with only a few milligrams of sample. A relevant list of Rogers' scientific publications can be found on the Web (Explosives Science).
Rogers was also an accomplished amateur archaeologist who did research on the chemistry of deposits and artifacts of interest in archaeology and geochronology. In 1978 he was invited to become Director of Chemical Research for the Shroud of Turin Research Project (STURP), whose primary goal was to determine the scientific properties of the image on the Shroud of Turin, and what might have caused it. The shroud was a linen fabric purported to be the burial cloth of Jesus of Nazareth.

 

[aleCcowaN]

What have credentials to do with any evidence? Credentials won't make false evidence into real one.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

Jabba, you lost. Stop wasting your time with this nonsense. You have no evidence. Admit your position is based on faith. You'll feel better knowing you're being honest for once.

 

[Jabba]

Expertise

Agatha,
- Accrding to Barrie Schwortz, these are their areas of expertise.

Joseph S. Accetta, Lockheed Corporation* Infrared and thermal imaging
Steven Baumgart, U.S. Air Force Weapons Laboratories* Infrared and thermal imaging
John D. German, U.S. Air Force Weapons Laboratories*
Ernest H. Brooks II, Brooks Institute of Photography* Photography
Mark Evans, Brooks Institute of Photography* Photomicroscopy
Vernon D. Miller, Brooks Institute of Photography* Scientific photography
Robert Bucklin, Harris County,Texas, Medical Examiner's Office Forensic pathology
Donald Devan, Oceanographic Services Inc.* Imaging science
Rudolph J. Dichtl, University of Colorado* Electronic equipment repairs/maintenance
Robert Dinegar, Los Alamos National Scientific Laboratories* Physicist
Donald & Joan Janney, Los Alamos National Scientific Laboratories* Physics and Chemistry
J. Ronald London, Los Alamos National Scientific Laboratories* X-radiography
Roger A. Morris, Los Alamos National Scientific Laboratories* X-radiography
Ray Rogers, Los Alamos National Scientific Laboratories* Chemistry
Larry Schwalbe, Los Alamos National Scientific Laboratories Physicist
Diane Soran, Los Alamos National Scientific Laboratories
Kenneth E. Stevenson, IBM* Public relations
Al Adler, Western Connecticut State University Blood chemistry
Thomas F. D'Muhala, Nuclear Technology Corporation* Administration
Jim Drusik, Los Angeles County Museum Art historian
Joseph Gambescia, St. Agnes Medical Center Medicine
Roger & Marty Gilbert, Oriel Corporation* Spectral data and instrumentation
Thomas Haverty, Rocky Mountain Thermograph* Infrared and thermal imaging
John Heller, New England Institute Medicine and blood chemistry
John P. Jackson, U.S. Air Force Academy* Physicist
Eric J. Jumper, U.S. Air Force Academy* Physicist
Jean Lorre, Jet Propulsion Laboratory* Imaging science
Donald J. Lynn, Jet Propulsion Laboratory* Imaging science (head of imaging for NASA on Voyager, Viking, Mariner and Galileo projects)
Robert W. Mottern, Sandia Laboratories* X-radiography
Samuel Pellicori, Santa Barbara Research Center* Optical science and engineering
Barrie M. Schwortz, Barrie Schwortz Studios* Photography

 

[aleCcowaN]

I'm sure a depiction of those experts dressed in style would look very imposing in a fresco on an apse, or carved in a tympanum, somewhere.

 

[aleCcowaN]

Wow, the parchments continue accumulating!

And now it comes the moment when the expert's ancestors are shown to be in the Bayeux tapestry...

Do you need more evidence? Why don't you fall on your knees saying "a lo' iuio" *?







* meaning "(right now, just lay) on the mesh the wild grasses weave"

 

[Craig4]

Wait a minute WRT to Heller and Adler they have a researchers who study blood chemistry and they did not establish if there was or was not potassium in the image areas? Seriously? What the hell were they doing with the tape samples?

 

[MRC_Hans]

What have credentials to do with any evidence? Credentials won't make false evidence into real one.

Hold on. Yabba was asked about the qualifications of the people who made the investigation, so he replies. No problem in that.

However, I'm not too impressed. There are some relevant qualifications there, but the problem is that the material those people had to work on was very slim.

Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

Wait a minute WRT to Heller and Adler they have a researchers who study blood chemistry and they did not establish if there was or was not potassium in the image areas? Seriously? What the hell were they doing with the tape samples?

Good point. However, you can do only so much with tape samples. The main problem is, although the shroud is alleged to be very thorughly investigated, in reality only very superficial examination has been allowed.

The only in-depth investigation ever done was the C14 examination, where researchers were actually allowed to take samples for destructive testing. Unfortunately (for Jabba), the result support the fake assumption.

Hans

 

[Aepervius]

Wait a minute why the expertise listed here seem slighty different than the one agatha listed ? At least for the one she found ?

Also all (*) participated in the 1978 examination, but for subsequent test this is severly reduced to :

Robert Bucklin, Harris County,Texas, Medical Examiner's Office Forensic pathology
Larry Schwalbe, Los Alamos National Scientific Laboratories Physicist
Diane Soran, Los Alamos National Scientific Laboratories
Al Adler, Western Connecticut State University Blood chemistry
Jim Drusik, Los Angeles County Museum Art historian
Joseph Gambescia, St. Agnes Medical Center Medicine
John Heller, New England Institute Medicine and blood chemistry

And Robert Buckling guy was a pathologist and did not even pick up on the problem of the projection of the face onto a cloth ? That it could only be a slight imprint and not a shroud falling naturally ?

I also note no spectroscopic expert after 1978 and no real paint expert or cloth expert.

What the heck ?

 

[aleCcowaN]

Hold on. Yabba was asked about the qualifications of the people who made the investigation, so he replies. No problem in that.

You mean, Jabba was asked many things and he traipsed around during weeks carefully and deliberately avoiding any advance until he decided to start by the less valuable bit -if any at all- that of the qualifications.

 

[jond]

The bigger question is: what difference does it make? The Stradavarius issue renders the entire discussion moot.

 

[John Jones]

Jabba,


http://llanoestacado.org/freeinquiry...a-response.htm

The real story in this controversy is not the mistaken age of the Shroud of Turin, but the misjudgment of a science journal editor and the breakdown of its peer review process.

Ray Rogers is a member of STURP (Shroud of Turin Research Project, an organization totally composed of believers in the authenticity of the Shroud) and accepted the authenticity of the Shroud from the very beginning of their work in the middle 1970s. He accepts all the shoddy work that STURP passed off as science two and three decades ago. As is well known, STURP's analyses on image formation, identity of the blood, sticky tape pollen, and history were hopelessly incompetent and unscientific, despite their claims and posturing to be rigorously scientific.

http://freeinquiry.com/skeptic/shroud

 

[John Jones]

nvm

 

[aleCcowaN]

jond, I think this thread is not about logic but about good taste and the prevention of the jabbafication of the youth.

Jabba has his magical thinking and nothing would convince him of being wrong because that very moment he would melt like Mr Valdemar, the Wicked Witch of the West and the nazis who wanted to snoop into the contents of the Ark, together. So Jabba is going to manufacture any BS he needs to continue with his beliefs. That's why death is an important part of evolution -and many religious wackos hate feelings about evolution-.

I think this thread should show how he constantly avoid the frank and serious discussion of the evidence. I mean, we might collectively pile tons of evidence the shroud is a medieval fake but that's so obvious to any of us and so unappealing and a waste of time that we should concentrate in a goal that is achievable: showing Jabba's bad ways and enjoy the fox hunting, so to speak.

 

[MRC_Hans]

You mean, Jabba was asked many things and he traipsed around during weeks carefully and deliberately avoiding any advance until he decided to start by the less valuable bit -if any at all- that of the qualifications.

Quite. Still you can't blame him for answering a question.

Hans