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Mandatory Military Service?

Larspeart

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Joined
Feb 28, 2003
Messages
581
No, I am not giong to post some lame conspiri-thread about 'The US is going to make everyone serve in the army! Egads!'

What I AM looking for is thoughts on the matter. A number of developed nations already have mandatory service periods of typically 2-5 years, around the ages fo 18-20. They meet with a high lvl of success, and little resistence. Most people after their term tend to leave with (relatively) positive impressions.

So... (and this is for Yanks and non-Yanks alike) how do you feel about it?
 
Larspeart said:
So... (and this is for Yanks and non-Yanks alike) how do you feel about it?
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No, hell no. I support the separation of person and state.
 
It would do the Army untold harm.

It would tie up 3 good troops just to try to assimilate one useless
Tony.

-z
 
rikzilla said:
It would do the Army untold harm.

It would tie up 3 good troops just to try to assimilate one useless
Tony.

-z
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Yep, I'm too much of an independent thinker to be trained like a dog.
 
Larspeart said:
No, I am not giong to post some lame conspiri-thread about 'The US is going to make everyone serve in the army! Egads!'

What I AM looking for is thoughts on the matter. A number of developed nations already have mandatory service periods of typically 2-5 years, around the ages fo 18-20. They meet with a high lvl of success, and little resistence. Most people after their term tend to leave with (relatively) positive impressions.

So... (and this is for Yanks and non-Yanks alike) how do you feel about it?
Click to expand...
I'm from Denmark where we have the draft. I was never drafted, so I can't comment on what impresison draftees leave with, but I think it is fundamentally problematic to force people to do something the don't want for an extended period, especially if there is, like in Denmark, no threat that makes the draft necesarry. Leaving aside my ideological objections, it also seems that the draft serves no actual purpose, The main job of the Danish army theese days is international missions where we don't send draftees anyways. We have in fact also cut back on the number of draftees we take in and several European countries that used to have the draft hasn't got it anymore, or are in the proces of removing it. The draft might have been exelent for defending against a Soviet invasion, but that's hardly an issue nowadays, and a draft based armies is IMO badly suited to the current tasks of the European armed forces.
 
Larspeart said:
No, I am not giong to post some lame conspiri-thread about 'The US is going to make everyone serve in the army! Egads!'

What I AM looking for is thoughts on the matter. A number of developed nations already have mandatory service periods of typically 2-5 years, around the ages fo 18-20. They meet with a high lvl of success, and little resistence. Most people after their term tend to leave with (relatively) positive impressions.

So... (and this is for Yanks and non-Yanks alike) how do you feel about it?
Click to expand...

In times of peace (which includes this contrived war), it is equivalent to stealing 'n' years of life from each person who would not volunteer.

To my mind, stealing years of life is close on to murder. Life is finite, and short enough already.

In times of war, real, justified war, universal service isn't necessarily bad, but it would be very wise to give people jobs that they are good at.

For some people that will be soldier. For some people that might be logistics, for some research, for some intellegence, for some tactics, and so on. Logistics and efficiency are what wins wars in any case, and that's why we've already totally, utterly lost in Iraq. It costs us a billion to deal with a $10,000 IED. We've lost, we ought to recognize that now, and deal with it.
 
and someone to scrap birdshit off the planes.

you seem to have only allowed for 'academic'-type roles in the military during war... of which, I am SURE you had mentally slated yourself into one of them, eh?

;)
 
Larspeart said:
and someone to scrap birdshit off the planes.

you seem to have only allowed for 'academic'-type roles in the military during war... of which, I am SURE you had mentally slated yourself into one of them, eh?

;)
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So, do you assign a nearsighted, clumsy electronics expert to be a foot-soldier?

I know they did stuff like that in 'nam. Pretty stupid, too.

Do you think that makes sense? What do you think? Does it make sense to keep the people with good vision and dexterity back from the front and send the clumsy nearsighted ones to the front? Is that what you're suggesting? No? Well, then, you agree with me if you aren't suggesting that.

Oh, and you seem to be forgetting all the work involved in logistics, all of the covert part of intellegence, and so on.

Did you have a slip there, when you wrote your message, or did your bias get in the way of your keyboard?
 
I think it's not too bad an idea. I wouldn't put these kids into the regular miltary, though. Maybe have a sort of junior corps thingy, so they can get some idea of the military, and do some work, but not go into combat or anything dangerous. Then, if they choose to pursue a military career, they will have a much better idea of what they're getting into. Alternatively, if they don't, they'll still have learned something and would have been of some use.

I've always thought it would be a good idea for there to be a break of a year or two between high school and college anyway. This sort of thing would earn the kids some money, give them a break in their education so they don't burn out, and give them a taste of the real world rather than waiting til they're 22, out of college, jobless, and under a crushing burden of loan debt.

Not sure about making it mandatory, though. That always leads to problems.
 
Well kids the question may turn out to be more then an idle examination.
Seems that the US army this year took in only %18 of the needed troops just to maintain a body count ( unfortunate expression). The whitehouse keeps saying No! but , well Let's just say that this administration has a less then poor record of promises kept when cheery projections collide with reality.
 
TillEulenspiegel said:
The whitehouse keeps saying No! but , well Let's just say that this administration has a less then poor record of promises kept when cheery projections collide with reality.
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Didn't you know!!??!! Any talk about a draft, no matter how likely it is, is a "conspiracy theory". Take your quackery somewhere else woo-woo.
 
Larspeart said:
and someone to scrap birdshit off the planes.

you seem to have only allowed for 'academic'-type roles in the military during war... of which, I am SURE you had mentally slated yourself into one of them, eh?

;)
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Ohh that is priceless!! :D

Reminds me of those 'historical' re-enactment groups where everyone is a general, or a knight or at the very least, lord and lady...no one is a pockmarked plague survivor, or a leper, or the village tanner.

:p
 
:( Hey crimresearch


I'm in one of those 'historical' re-enactment groups and I just so happen to play a pockmarked plague surviving leper......or at least that's how everyone treats me. ;)

Lord Ashikaga Hiromoto
 
Larspeart said:
Missed my point (and my lighthearted jab at that) entirely.
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Ok, what was it?

I watched too many poor kids go off to the army in the draft in the 1970's and never come home. Kids that would never make a good soldier if their life depended on it, and that, of course, is why they never came home.

I also saw people who were motived and good at being predators (I do not mean that in a bad way, they were good hunters, etc, in the military sense). Many of those guys were also drafted and a surprising number wound up as REMF's, at least some of them to their substantial dismay.

For some reason, nearly none of the rich kids ever got drafted. Never mind there was no education deferment, etc.
 
TillEulenspiegel said:
Well kids the question may turn out to be more then an idle examination.
Seems that the US army this year took in only %18 of the needed troops just to maintain a body count ( unfortunate expression). The whitehouse keeps saying No! but , well Let's just say that this administration has a less then poor record of promises kept when cheery projections collide with reality.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid your numbers are a bit muddled.

The Army expressed concern that it began the year with only 18% of the year's quota in the pipeline (already signed up and just waiting for their training to start or for graduation etc). Army target is to have 25% of their yearly quota in the pipeline at the start of the year. They are concerned about the shortfall but it is nowhere near as dark a picture as you paint.
 
Ashi said:
:( Hey crimresearch


I'm in one of those 'historical' re-enactment groups and I just so happen to play a pockmarked plague surviving leper......or at least that's how everyone treats me. ;)

Lord Ashikaga Hiromoto
Click to expand...

So are you a Troll, fen?;)
 
I'm against compulsory service, mostly due to the personnel requirements and financial burden of taking in all those young adults, but also because I believe that not everyone is cut out to be in the military.

Think about the logistics of such a thing. On average, what percentage of high school graduates go into the military (either enlist or go to college then commission)? I'm going to take a stab and say it's 20%, though I may be way off. I suspect it's actually less, but my point will remain.

So, we're going to enlist five times as many people during any given year, put them through basic military training, outfit them with uniforms and equipment, construct billeting, enhance on-base services, provide job training, then release them into private life after only a couple-three years? Not to mention the headache of exemptions, medical disqualifications, and other such things. Getting through MEPS is a pain in the neck now, I couldn't imagine it being worse.

On my earlier point, not everyone is military material. Free thinkers aside, there are plenty of people that just wouldn't gel in the military mind set. I could see Article 15s up the ying yang for these kids.

Meh, maybe in a culture that has always had compulsory service, but not in the States.
 
Samus said:
Meh, maybe in a culture that has always had compulsory service, but not in the States.
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True. Americans are a uniform herd of noncomformists, every damn one of 'em.
 
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