Mandatory Military Service?

[kalen]

I've seen Chomsky make some clever observations, but this blurb you pasted was pretty dumb.

Instead of me picking it apart, why don't you tell me what is so brilliant about it?

No. Pick it apart. Pick your nose. I don't care. Calling his statement dumb without qualification and asking me to tell you why it isn't - that's pretty dumb. I think it stands quite well on its own.

 

[bigred]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mandatory Military Service?

If I dont want my kid to go to school, I can home school them. If i dont want to pay income or property taxes, i can just decide not to work or own real estate. If i dont want to do the speed limit, I can just not drive, Or drive on private property.

Good points.

When you're interested in discussing reality, let know. Cmon...

Now if I dont want to join the mandatory military my options are.........GO TO JAIL! Military jail, which could actually mean hard labor.

? Where the heck did you get that? You really should know something about the military before you make such statements. For starters, back when we had the draft, if you refused to go into the military, you didn't go to a military jail (because you're not yet in the military......follow?). And how many draft dodgers in the 60s went to jail? I'm betting it was a REAL small percentage, at most.

When has the military directly protected free speech?

I've already answered that...

[First of all most of the attacks on free speech have come from within our own country, usually by the governement.

Even if we concede that, "government" does not equal "military" FYI. Further, what "attacks?"

I dont recall our country ever being attacked by another country whos motives were to stop our free speech.

And if even if we concede that, so?

As for soilders vs journalists. Whats the old saying? The pen is mightier than the sword.

I see, so we could've stopped Hitler and Japan in their tracks if we just had written nasty articles about them? Honestly, what's your point?

 

[Tony]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Mandatory Military Service?

The press doesn't defend the first amendment, the MILITARY does.

That's a blatant lie. The military protects the government's interests. If the government saw fit to shut down newspapers and put people in jail, it would be the military acting for them, first amendment be damned.

 

[Tony]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mandatory Military Service?

Isnt it kinda ironic that you want to rip away liberty and force service in order to show these "twits" the price that is paid for liberty,,,,,,,liberty they dont have.?

Yep, it's kind of like the "freedom isn't free" canard.

 

[Tony]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mandatory Military Service?

I've already answered that...

No you didn't. You skirted the issue with pro-military propaganda. Can you cite one instance in the past 30 years where the military has directly protected free-speech in America? If not 30 how about 50? 100? 150?

 

[bigred]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mandatory Military Service?

No you didn't. You skirted the issue with pro-military propaganda.

Hardly. You just either didn't get or refuse to acknowledge the answer.

You want an example? How about WW II for starters?

If you think we'd still be the free country we are today w/o the military, you're in MAJOR dreamland. But sadly, that describes a great many people in our country today.

 

[IIRichard]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mandatory Military Service?

That's a blatant lie. The military protects the government's interests. If the government saw fit to shut down newspapers and put people in jail, it would be the military acting for them, first amendment be damned.

I will repeat my earlier challenge to another poster. Let's have duel, you use a blue pencil (or computer or whatever they use today), I get an M-14.

 

[Tony]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mandatory Military Service?

You want an example? How about WW II for starters?

That wasn't in the last 30 years and what evidence do you have that the military protected American rights during WW2? IIRC there was a draft and there were concentration camps for Americans of Japanese, German and Italian descent. Your military failed egregiously to protect those rights.

Why?

Because the infringement of those rights was in the government’s interest; the protection of which is the military's job.

If you think we'd still be the free country we are today w/o the military, you're in MAJOR dreamland.

Yes, we would. It's an historical fact, the only wars (Revolution and War of 1812) which american freedoms were under direct attack and which required direct protection were faught by the militia.

But sadly, that describes a great many people in our country today.

On the contrary, it's sad that we have so many people who worship the military and take pro-military propaganda as gospel truth.

 

[Tony]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mandatory Military Service?

I will repeat my earlier challenge to another poster. Let's have duel, you use a blue pencil (or computer or whatever they use today), I get an M-14.

Whatever, you're still a liar.

 

[bigred]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mandatory Military Service?

Whatever, you're still a liar.

And you're a doo-doo head. Nanny nanny boo boo.



Sorry, but that's about as seriously as I can take your posts, which are either "trolling" or otherwise just not worth addressing any further.

 

[Tmy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Mandatory Military Service?

Good points.

When you're interested in discussing reality, let know. Cmon...


?

When your actually going to address my points let me know.

There are lots of people who dont drive around or pay taxes. Bums, pampered children, rich people with limos and good accountants.

 

[Tony]

Sorry, but that's about as seriously as I can take your posts, which are either "trolling" or otherwise just not worth addressing any further.

I see you cower away with ad homs, preferring the comfort you find in your ignorance, instead of bucking up when someone challenges your propaganda. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

 

[wipeout]

How many wars would never have been fought if the nation which started the war never had the ability to enslave its population into its military?

"Aw... ran out of volunteer troops so soon, Mr. Hitler? Too bad, game over."

"But wait, here's 10,000,000 extra lives that people who support any form of draft will give you."

"Now you can fight a real big war! Have fun!"

Do you know who and what you are really supporting when you support the draft?

I don't think so.

 

[Tmy]

Are their countries who have mandatory service and NOT a present danger to the country. Im thinking Isreal. THey are under constant theat and kinda need a ready army at hand.

If your country doesnt need mandatory service, why have it. You have a draft for emergency situations. Why not leave it at that/

 

[Kerberos]

How many wars would never have been fought if the nation which started the war never had the ability to enslave its population into its military?

"Aw... ran out of volunteer troops so soon, Mr. Hitler? Too bad, game over."

"But wait, here's 10,000,000 extra lives that people who support any form of draft will give you."

"Now you can defend yourself against Hitler! Have fun!"

Do you know who and what you are really supporting when you support the draft?

I don't think so.

Yeah right, couse it's not as if Hitler might just ignore what we thought about it and draft people anyways. A more appropriate case might be.

How many wars would have been fought if the nation which was attackes never had the ability to enslave its population into its military?

"Aw... ran out of volunteer troops so soon, Mr. Churchill? Too bad, game over."

"But wait, here's 10,000,000 extra lives that people who support any form of draft will give you."

"Now you can defend yourself against Hitler! Have fun!"

Do you know who and what you are really supporting when you oppose the draft?

Of course there isn't any Hitler lurking around in the shadows right now, which is why I opose the draft.

 

[wipeout]

Yeah right, couse it's not as if Hitler might just ignore what we thought about it and draft people anyways.

Rigggggghhhht... I have thought this bit through, you know.

So perhaps if you want to defend your own country better, instead of allowing another country to enslave its own population to attack you and then enslaving your own population to defend yourself, how about trying instead to prevent this other country from enslaving its own population?

Fight not just draft in your own country, but help others fight it in theirs and any success reduces the possibility of war.

It's worth a try, don't you think? Always better to treat the cause than the disease.

 

[Rob Lister]

Rigggggghhhht... I have thought this bit through, you know.

So perhaps if you want to defend your own country better, instead of allowing another country to enslave its own population to attack you and then enslaving your own population to defend yourself, how about trying instead to prevent this other country from enslaving its own population?

Fight not just draft in your own country, but help others fight it in theirs and any success reduces the possibility of war.

It's worth a try, don't you think? Always better to treat the cause than the disease.

I think Bush would wholeheartedly agree with you. Me, more than not.

 

[wipeout]

I don't know what Bush thinks or Clinton thought but as far as I know, despite their own histories, they haven't been encouraging the end to the draft in European nations or congratulating those that it ended in recently or will end in soon. I believe that's where any similarity of belief would most likely show up. Maybe someone else here knows better, though, but it sounds like something they'd be too afraid to say even if they thought it.

 

[Kerberos]

Rigggggghhhht... I have thought this bit through, you know.

So perhaps if you want to defend your own country better, instead of allowing another country to enslave its own population to attack you and then enslaving your own population to defend yourself, how about trying instead to prevent this other country from enslaving its own population?

Fight not just draft in your own country, but help others fight it in theirs and any success reduces the possibility of war.

It's worth a try, don't you think?

Depends, as has been mentioned some countries might need the draft to defend themselves from foreign threats, and besides how are you going to keep other countries from having the draft? If your country's threatened it's relatively easy to spend more money on the military, it's much harder to make other countries spend less. So I have no objection in theory to your plan, but with the exeption of invading every country on the planet which has the draft I don't see how it's possible.

Always better to treat the cause than the disease.

No, not always.

ETA: and besides the entire "draft causes war" logic is highly questionable, the European great power fought wars with profesional armies before Napoleon IIRC, and US is foghting one right now.

 

[wipeout]

So I have no objection in theory to your plan, but with the exeption of invading every country on the planet which has the draft I don't see how it's possible.

It certainly requires some serious thought, yes, but to monitor and influence a government and to encourage and support resistance within that government and nation are obviously feasible. Other stronger means are also feasible.

We have to seriously wonder what would have happened if surrounding nations and Germans themselves had tried to disrupt the draft in Germany long before the Second World War.

I have a suspicion we are talking about a situation in which resistance would picked up its own momentum once a certain level of resistance was reached.

Not that we can know about that now, but it's too important a possibility for future conflicts to be ignored, as it seems to have been as far as I know.

...besides the entire "draft causes war" logic is highly questionable, the European great power fought wars with profesional armies before Napoleon IIRC, and US is foghting one right now.

I'm not suggesting it causes all war, I'm suggesting the draft makes many wars possible that would never have occured and makes many wars last far longer than they would have otherwise.

We try to stop nations getting weapons, so I say why not investigate and act on how to stop them getting troops.