Loose Change - Part III

[brodski]

Why is it that when someone believes in one conspiracy, they are more likely to believe in other conspiracies as well? An inherited psychological susceptibility perhaps? Or are they just bored?

I got some insight into this when one "ninja" (I think it was Dubfan, I may be wrong) was posting on LC that there was exactly the same level of evidence for a CT relating to the Columbia Shuttle disaster as there was for 9/11 CTs, this backfired somewhat as instead of having them realize how flimsy the "evidence" for 9/11 CTs as, half of them started to believe in a Columbia CT!
The "shape" of the arguments for almost all CTs is the same, so once they accept one, in order to be logically consistent, they are forced to either accept ALL CT's, or reject them all as well.

 

[dubfan]

I'm frustrated with the truth movement as an awesome distraction from real problems.

Why get our hands dirty with issues that are hard to understand when I have a sensational documentary I can watch?

For emphasis.

(somewhat ironically, this is exactly what Noam Chomsky said, btw, when 9/11 Truthers have tried to engage him in their cause)

 

[Pardalis]

I got some insight into this when one "ninja" (I think it was Dubfan, I may be wrong) was posting on LC that there was exactly the same level of evidence for a CT relating to the Columbia Shuttle disaster as there was for 9/11 CTs, this backfired somewhat as instead of having them realize how flimsy the "evidence" for 9/11 CTs as, half of them started to believe in a Columbia CT!
The "shape" of the arguments for almost all CTs is the same, so once they accept one, in order to be logically consistent, they are forced to either accept ALL CT's, or reject them all as well.

Very well said.

It's very much like a cult, once you get into that mind set, it's hard to get out. Once you allow yourself to believe in such ideas, it's very easy to make you believe pretty much everything (except reality).

 

[dubfan]

I got some insight into this when one "ninja" (I think it was Dubfan, I may be wrong) was posting on LC that there was exactly the same level of evidence for a CT relating to the Columbia Shuttle disaster as there was for 9/11 CTs, this backfired somewhat as instead of having them realize how flimsy the "evidence" for 9/11 CTs as, half of them started to believe in a Columbia CT!

Yes, too clever by half, I was.

I've got them doubting gravity now.

I'm terrified what will happen if I bring up the Higgs boson.

 

[Gravy]

So you do not defend either side? You just point out problems with one side?

The real truth movement is pointing out the incredible amount of holes in the official theory. The holes are filled with theories. We have no budget in this endeavor, it is all by volunteer and spare time. I am not saying coming up with theories is the correct action, but it is necessary. People demand a explanation, need a explanation.

I have to leave for a while now. (I feel a need now to announce this as to not endure a lot of ridicule)

SBrown/Jennabell, I challenged you to present your case in a one-on-one debate here. No interference, no "private citizen oppression" whatsoever. That's a great opportunity for thousands of skeptics to view the "truth" you have to offer. You declined.

Your actions, like those of all the other Loosers who have been challenged to debate, are proof that your "movement" is nothing more than a club for intellectual cowards. You whine about oppression, yet you are completely free to accuse people of mass murder against Americans with out a shred of evidence.

If I thought my government was guilty of that crime, I sure as hell wouldn't spend my time trolling internet forums. I'd be trying to gather evidence against them. What evidence have you gathered, SBrown/Jennabell? Show us all the results of your research. Show us what evidence you've gathered to prove the guilt of the monsters who attacked us on 9/11.

Show us.

Nothing, then? Just trolling, Jennabell? You aren't actually interested in the truth? You just enjoy the opportunity to whine on the internet?

You're just another ignorant intellectual coward who crawls back under his rock when challenged.

 

[Stellafane]

Very well said.

It's very much like a cult, once you get into that mind set, it's hard to get out. Once you allow yourself to believe in such ideas, it's very easy to make you believe pretty much everything (except reality).

And the things you have to not believe for your little world to remain intact keeps growing and growing, until you've essentially divorced yourself from all reality. When that happens, you've completed the transition from childish silliness to actual insanity.

 

[Class]

My new favorite thread at loose bowels.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7287

Clearly the amateur videos of the 2nd plane hitting the tower are faked

Ugh. From that thread:

I like this video too:

user posted image

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMZV9NSfsqA


In this heavily edited "amateur" video, notice you can hear the explosion of the crash, but not the plane approaching, even though you can hear car traffic, sirens, and a helicopter.

What really intrigues me is the woman speaking. Notice it comes right after an edit and no voices are heard when the crash happens. Note that she sounds mad, but not screaming, panicking or hysterical. She also knows it's a "suicide bomber" seconds after the crash:

"...do this? How can you do this? How sick of a mind do you have to be to be suicide bomber, or whatever? How sick! For what?"

Hmmm, scripted?

Then compare it to the over-acting "amateurs" in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyqo4oh-AzU

Killtown and moderator TheQuest call the reactions of people in the second video over-acting.

How do they expect someone to react to seeing something as terrifying and traumatic as that?

 

[twinstead]

short lurker decloak...

So it appears that to loose change, simply throwing all sorts of unlikely, ill-conceived theories against the wall in the hope that something sticks, just to fill up real and imagined holes in the official story is considered legitimate investigative technique. I disagree totally.

I have never seen any investigation that doesn't have anomalies and unexplained issues, and that includes the official story of 911. I however have seen NOTHING from the loose change folks that even remotely resembles logical evidence of a government plot.

I agree with Gravy; accusing people of mass murder with NO real evidence, all for ideological brownie points, is shameful.

It disgusts me.

 

[Johnny Pixels]

The real truth movement is pointing out the incredible amount of holes in the official theory.

The Real Truth movement? You are joking aren't you? There is nothing I've seen from the real truth movement that isn't either a repetition of somthing that has already been proved wrong/impossible, or a complete misunderstanding/warping of basic science

I am not saying coming up with theories is the correct action, but it is necessary. People demand a explanation, need a explanation.

Coming up with random theories is all well and good, but you need to ditch the ones that don't work out. The truth movement fails to do this, but instead takes on board more and more baggage, because anyone who dismisses a theory is labelled "against the truth" or (heaven forbid) a skeptic, which seems to be a dirty word for you lot.

The people have an explanation. The official report. You may not like it, but that doesn't make it any less true. Hell, I don't like taxes, but that doesn't mean I don't have to pay them.


And on a slightly different note, you ever wonder why people get banned so readily from the Loose Change forum? I got banned for just asking questions, which is what the truth movement claims to be doing. The only difference is I pointed out where they were wrong, and things they couldn't explain, and so boosh, out I went.

And thanks for starting a thread about me. Yes, I am an uncaring monster, well, I don't care much for hypocrites at least.

 

[delphi_ote]

We have no budget in this endeavor, it is all by volunteer and spare time.

But you have the support of college professors and experts through the whole movement, too!

As usual, you're trying to have it both ways, showing what hypocrites and liars you all are.

 

[Apollyon]

The Real Truth movement? You are joking aren't you? There is nothing I've seen from the real truth movement that isn't either a repetition of somthing that has already been proved wrong/impossible, or a complete misunderstanding/warping of basic science.

Is there a "real" truth movement?

No planes at the Pentagon but at the WTC.

No planes anywhere.

Thermite.

Super thermite.

C4.

It was the government.

It was the Jews.

It was the Illuminati.

They don't seem to have any "truth." All they have is a bunch of disparate theories that none of them can seem to come to any coherent concensus on. Maybe the truthers don't realize it, but that's the biggest debunk of their "truth" that exists - The fact that they can't even agree what their truth actually is.

 

[DavidJames]

I finally was awarded my suspension.

I went to loose change to find out if there was any substance to the CTs and discovered there wasn't any.

I also went to find out what kind of people perpetuate the CTs and found a good chunk of them were much as I described in an earlier post which I won't repeat here.

Suffice it to say that the regulars at loose change will never be convinced by evidence. They simply don't have the education or experience to know the difference between expert analysis and conjecture. Nor the intellectual curiosity to find out the real truth

Nor do they have the emotional and physcologoical maturity to recognize the depth and breadth of the accusations they are making. They get indignant and insulted when you accuse them of something but have no problems of accusing others of cold blooded murder.

It's not only immaturity or inexperience that leads someone down that path. There must be other factors but damn if I know what they are.

 

[realitybites]

I finally was awarded my suspension.

I went to loose change to find out if there was any substance to the CTs and discovered there wasn't any.

I also went to find out what kind of people perpetuate the CTs and found a good chunk of them were much as I described in an earlier post which I won't repeat here.

Suffice it to say that the regulars at loose change will never be convinced by evidence. They simply don't have the education or experience to know the difference between expert analysis and conjecture. Nor the intellectual curiosity to find out the real truth

Nor do they have the emotional and physcologoical maturity to recognize the depth and breadth of the accusations they are making. They get indignant and insulted when you accuse them of something but have no problems of accusing others of cold blooded murder.

It's not only immaturity or inexperience that leads someone down that patch. There must be other factors but damn if I know.

Congrats on the suspension. Mine just ended today. But JDX's charm and mutant-like posting ability are wearing thin. That entire forum is being over-run by him and KillTown.

Which, in my estimation, is a very good thing.

 

[Johnny Pixels]

Is there a "real" truth movement?

No planes at the Pentagon but at the WTC.

No planes anywhere.

Thermite.

Super thermite.

C4.

It was the government.

It was the Jews.

It was the Illuminati.

They don't seem to have any "truth." All they have is a bunch of disparate theories that none of them can seem to come to any coherent concensus on. Maybe the truthers don't realize it, but that's the biggest debunk of their "truth" that exists - The fact that they can't even agree what their truth actually is.

True, it should've read "real" "truth" "movement", because they've not got any truth nor any movement because they go round in circles.

But I do worry about these people. Their world seems to be built on ideas about things, rather than facts about them.

 

[rikzilla]

Knowing rickzilla for as long as I have around here, I suspect he'd call most organized religions a cult (correct me if I'm wrong rik).

I was brought up in the Roman Catholic "cult", if it makes you feel any better, SOT. I don't think rik was singling out Mormons.

Well yeah Skinny

But then again I never spent time as a Catholic. I did spend two strange years in LDS back when I was in high school though. (My mom was into it)

But like I said...I never meant to offend SOT but LDS is indeed set up a bit like Scientology. Let me explain.

• The Leader....LDS President is a claimed living prophet. (He's not)
• The Dogma....Handed down to The Leader in the form of Golden Plates from Heaven. (Book of Mormon was actually an unpublished novel stolen from a printer in or about the 1830's) Disbelief in the BOM and it's young Earth theology gets you dis-fellowshipped...or somesuch.
• The Priesthood....Be a guy. Be white.
• The Secret....God lives on a planet near a star called Kalob. Be a good Mormon and get to be God of a planet of your own.
• The Support Group....for those "coming out of Mormonism"

It quacks and waddles. I may be wrong; but my early assessment is "duck".

Now SOT...I think you are a good level headed Joe. We need such as you in the critical thinking movement which welcomes people of all faiths etc...etc... but be careful and have thick skin. We don't usually cut any kind of woo a break around here. Not even the woo that passes for traditional religion.

sorry my friend. Someone has to say it. May as well be me.
-z

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

*snip*[SoT:not gonna bother with this, didn't come here for a jihad of my own ]
Now SOT...I think you are a good level headed Joe. We need such as you in the critical thinking movement which welcomes people of all faiths etc...etc... but be careful and have thick skin. We don't usually cut any kind of woo a break around here. Not even the woo that passes for traditional religion.

sorry my friend. Someone has to say it. May as well be me.
-z

Do I dare mention that two of my best friends are wiccans?

EDIT: I will respond to ONE thing; when I get my "big promotion", my planet is gonna be the size of jupiter. It's going to be hot pink and covered in neon green polka dots the size of pluto. It's going to color clash horribly with the rest of the universe and drive all the other gods insane.

 

[rikzilla]

Do I dare mention that two of my best friends are wiccans?

EDIT: I will respond to ONE thing; when I get my "big promotion", my planet is gonna be the size of jupiter. It's going to be hot pink and covered in neon green polka dots the size of pluto. It's going to color clash horribly with the rest of the universe and drive all the other gods insane.

Skin thickness...check!

Good to have you aboard.

Hey, no one's perfect...two of my best friends are Republicans.


-z

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

So I passed the test? Do I get a cookie?

What amazes me is you appearantly discovered all that stuff yet didn't think to say anything about the squeegee and the flyswatter. =/

 

[steve s]

Is there a "real" truth movement?
.
.
.
.
.
They don't seem to have any "truth." All they have is a bunch of disparate theories that none of them can seem to come to any coherent concensus on. Maybe the truthers don't realize it, but that's the biggest debunk of their "truth" that exists - The fact that they can't even agree what their truth actually is.

Hey, I mean, like, they're just asking questions, man.

Steve S.

 

[SBrown]

Well, here we go. We have an actual chance to have a civil conversation. I implore you, in fact everyone, to give it a shot when you continue. No offence, but this continuous bickering and name calling was fun for a while, but its become quite stale.

It appears that is not possible bob. I thought after reading this that I would see a lot of agreement with you that the games and name calling was getting old I agree(and it can be fun but it really amounts to no progress) but not in the cards I guess. What we get instead is almost a full page of insults, ridicule, challenges and primal chest beating. Now I am not degrading this board right now, just pointing out the obvious, it would happen the same way over at the LC board. Sad really, we are more similar than many of us even know.

Oh well back to the grind.