Loose Change - Part III

Status
Not open for further replies.
Just a prediction

Sentinel will be back today, Tues.?

Main branch of the NYP Library is closed on Monday.

I don't claim to be psychic, just analytical.
 
gumboot said:
A quick question for the knowledgable...

This is regarding the discovered passport that CTers think is so important and the FBI don't...

Pre Sept 2001, what identification was required to board a domestic flight in the USA? And if a passport was not required, how common was it for people to carry their passport around anyway?

I'm thinking the image of someone off to the airport to go overseas, desperately looking for their passport because they haven't seen it in six months or a year...

Even some rough info/speculation on this would be nice. :)
Click to expand...

I flew on 9/10/2001 (and 9/17/2001). I presented a photo drivers license to the people at the gateway to the plane (not at the x-ray security checkpoint like today). The id was presented to the airline people, there were no dedicated security people.

Note that the hijackers had illegally obtained driver's licenses. They should leave behind their passports since they wouldn't match the driver's licenses.

Additionally, like I did on 9/10/2001, the hijackers showed up at the last minute and basically pushed the airline people to let them on. The airline people checking ID's as you got on were mainly concerned with people flying with tickets in their name -- not preventing hijackings. IDs in the last seconds of boarding got barely a glance.

Finally, when on a sucide mission are you really concerned if passport is later found? If you work for a group that plans on taking credit for the disaster don't you want to be easy to be proven who did it?

Note that identification in no way increases security and that it is possible today to fly without identification at all (if you're willing to submit to a more through search.)
 
Last edited:
Maybe compiling a list of various airport security measurments before and after 9/11 would be a good point at this point. That way it can be adressed properly in future discussions.
 
Again, the hijackers are foreigners - they are SUPPOSED to be carrying their passports.
 
Thanks for all the info people. :)

It seems to be pretty much as I suspected.

-Andrew
 
CptColumbo said:
Maybe at JFK, but in MPLS at the time for a domestic flight all you needed was a driver's license or gov't issued picture ID.
Click to expand...

Not as airport id - just out on the street, by strict definition of the passport - and your visa. In your possesion is the rule.
 
CptColumbo said:
Maybe at JFK, but in MPLS at the time for a domestic flight all you needed was a driver's license or gov't issued picture ID.
Click to expand...
What if there was an emergency change of plan and they had to leave the country, though? A bit awkward if you don't have your passport with you.
 
60hzxtl said:
Now, on the freefall thing - we are talking about freefall and Terminal velocity in real world, not lab conditions. The quote is from Sport Parachuting by Russ Gunby, pg 63:

"Sooner or later the speed and friction will balance each other and when the balance of these two forces is reached, the falling object will then have reached a steady falling speed which is called terminal velocity. In atmosphere this takes about 12 seconds and is approximately 176 feet [p]er second or 120 miles per hou[r]. Once terminal velocity is reached, an object will not fall any faster."
Click to expand...
Freefall vs. terminal velocity aren't entirely relevant with respect to the WTC collapses to begin with. Couple of points:

1. Terminal velocity is the speed at which gravitational force and drag balance. The speed depends on object density, size, and aspect, often approximated as "ballistic coefficient." A bowling ball has much higher terminal velocity than a feather. ~120 MPH is about right for a skydiver in proper position, it goes up considerably if you're in a head-down position. Steel girders are probably faster.

2. You can't really treat the WTC towers with terminal velocity anyway, because they aren't falling in a freestream of air. They're smacking into lower floors and into the ground. There's some slight drag at the edges, but there is no static body of air that the upper floors have to force their way through. Instead they're forcing their way through the lower floors... Those floors contained air, and probably were momentarily pressurized as the upper floors came through the ceiling, until windows shattered like a glass balloon (perhaps creating visual events that CT morons label as "squibs"). In any case, there is structural resistance to the collapse, as treated by Greening and others, but there is no steady drag force so terminal velocity is not the correct concept for modeling purposes.

In summary, nothing unexpected happened.
 
R.Mackey said:
Freefall vs. terminal velocity aren't entirely relevant with respect to the WTC collapses to begin with. .
Click to expand...


Exactly, but when Dylan intones "Freefall" the cter's go ooooooohhhhh, as if it were important, my point is that they don't know what it means. The words mean nothing when he uses them, but it rings in their empty heads.

(And terminal is a lot more fun!)
 
Last edited:
Gravy said:
No. In fact, in the extras of LC2E at Ground Zero, there's a random loon on camera saying "The same people who killed JFK did this."
Click to expand...

So, 911 was perpetrated by a bunch of old guys in their 70's and 80's?

Those sly devils! Here we think they're playing shuffleboard or feeding squirrels, when they've really been plotting their next nefarious scheme!
 
60hzxtl said:
Again, the hijackers are foreigners - they are SUPPOSED to be carrying their passports.
Click to expand...

I guess I don't know even what this whole passport issue is about, but let me state again for those who missed it above, it is known that one of the hijackers did not have a photo ID when he checked in. He was flagged for extra security, which means that his checked baggage was held off the aircraft until it was confirmed that he boarded.

This is all in the 911-Commission report. You folks know how to get there better than I do (heck, I just followed one of all y'all's links)
 
Actually, I heard it was G.W. Bush who planned out the whole nationwide JFK assassination conspiracy thing when he was 17 or so.
 
pgwenthold said:
I guess I don't know even what this whole passport issue is about, but let me state again for those who missed it above, it is known that one of the hijackers did not have a photo ID when he checked in. He was flagged for extra security, which means that his checked baggage was held off the aircraft until it was confirmed that he boarded.

This is all in the 911-Commission report. You folks know how to get there better than I do (heck, I just followed one of all y'all's links)
Click to expand...

A hijacker's passport was found in the debris from the crash outside one of the WTC towers. A passer-by picked it up and gave it to a NYPD officer (IIRC). CTs don't believe that a passport could've survived the impact in readable condition and imply that it was planted by the passer-by (whose identity is unknown).
 
Back in part II, I posted a link to a Loose Change forum thread about 911 Eyewitness being played to Japanese Parliamentarians. They said that they were going to reconsider funding the US. I have a bad feeling that the video being played to Parliamentarians and this: today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-06-20T043012Z_01_T363480_RTRUKOC_0_UK-IRAQ-JAPAN.xml
are related.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom