Loose Change - Part III

[60hzxtl]

Yes.

I don't think it's a cult. But it is a religion.

It's a Cult!

It's a religion!

Stop! You're both right!

(ooooh, I'm showing my age.)

 

[dubfan]

I see no difference between the two

Well dude, I just read your paper, and I gotta say, you make a pretty convincing case. Maybe they are a cult.

Btw, I'd never heard this before:

http://nwobeastomfg.ytmnd.com/

Wow.

 

[MarkyX]

Well dude, I just read your paper, and I gotta say, you make a pretty convincing case. Maybe they are a cult.

Btw, I'd never heard this before:

http://nwobeastomfg.ytmnd.com/

Wow.

Yeah, I am a frequent visitor of YTMND and I just typed in "Alex Jones" for the hell of it and came up with that.

There is more sites like that on him, but nothing nearly as insane as this one.

 

[Gravy]

Btw, I'd never heard this before:

http://nwobeastomfg.ytmnd.com/

Wow.

Oh, my! Forget "the Beast," it sounds like the evil of "the Drink" is upon ol' Alex.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Well dude, I just read your paper, and I gotta say, you make a pretty convincing case. Maybe they are a cult.

Btw, I'd never heard this before:

http://nwobeastomfg.ytmnd.com/

Wow.

Did I hear that right? Did he say he was going to "play some renegades" at the end of the clip?

Does he mean the Tribes 2 modification? I LOVED air-whoring (can I say that here?) in the rocket equipped shrike.

 

[tacodaemon]

Hey Gravy, did you a small favor.

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=16569875&blogID=138496523&indicate=1

And I took a screenie of my entry on my index site in case he deletes it.

Check out that "FOX" guy -- another "why don't you make a counter-documentary" argument. Because heaven forfend these people should have to read anything instead of having it read aloud to them. No wonder the best analogy some of them can come up with is to a TV commercial series featuring cookie-making cartoon elves. (I'm gonna be laughing about that Keebler Elves analogy for weeks.)

 

[Brainster]

Here's Truther Jon Gold on Opie & Anthony

As I mentioned earlier, this MP3 of Truther named Jon Gold is pretty amusing because it shows how much abuse these guys will take just to get on the radio. Warning: Contains a fair amount of strong language; this is taken from satellite radio and apparently they feel free to spice it up with some f-bombs.

Fetzer is still scheduled for Laura Ingraham tomorrow at 10:30 AM EDT (assuming no big news story hits tomorrow morning). I'll try to get on and lead with a question about Barbara Olson; I want to ask him where he got the information she's alive. I suspect that will get Laura to go off on him; obviously she knew Olson and probably knows where Ted Olson is living.

If Olson's already come up I'll hit him with what happened to the passengers; his energetic dancing around that particular question on Colmes was quite amusing.

Fingers crossed I can get through; if any of you others want to try it would help the cause!

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Reading further...
OMG! He was emailing pictures of his aroused member to prostitutes on the internet? He also pushed his wife down while she was holding their infant daughter? 17 pages of this stuff?
I'm going to go through my DVD collection tonight and throw out everything he was ever in. I never want to watch another movie with that woo lunatic wifebeating child abusing drug addict bastage again.

Bolding mine.

Sadly, that would include Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Oh well.

 

[CptColumbo]

Not Red Dawn, it's the Swayziest!

 

[Regnad Kcin]

I'm going to go after the Scholars with everything I've got. Anybody who's compiled information on these guys, I want to know about it.

All I know is: they're idiots.

Does that help ?

Here's what I don't understand. Based on the numerous CTers who've posted to these related threads (at this forum), I'd say none reveal any indication they have learned anything and their position would as a result be modified or reevaluated.

Me, I completely dig learning new things, not to mention expanding my expertise on topics I enjoy a passing familiarity with. And if I'm error anywhere, I wanna know. That way I can make the fix so as to not reveal ignorance and/or continue to embarrass myself. I'm eager to make necessary adjustments inside my skull!

Now, ego may play a part in the apparent reluctance for CTers to change. But that "logic" escapes me as well, considering most are anonymous entities with identities shrouded behind noms-de-keyboard. The only one likely to ever know they adapted is their own self.

All this is all the more perplexing considering so many components of the alternate 9/11 theories are so far beyond rationality. And considering the official story is simple, sufficiently detailed, and fairly dripping with common sense, it's all the more...mystifying.

 

[Mancman]

Well dude, I just read your paper, and I gotta say, you make a pretty convincing case. Maybe they are a cult.

Btw, I'd never heard this before:

http://nwobeastomfg.ytmnd.com/

Wow.

Oh dear.

 

[60hzxtl]

The cter's are breaking down into factions for their own "troooth".

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7186

Fun to watch the "I'm the king of my site and all I survey" schisms begin as each becomes their own saviors.

 

[aggle-rithm]

Well, they got me.

Of course, they never tell you why they ban you. But if I had to guess, this time was likely due to my throwing JohndoeX's logic bomb back in his face with the pin removed.

This just occurred to me... if the FEMA report trumps the first hand eyewitness testimony of an 18 year veteran of the New York Fire Department, then it also trumps ALL eyewitness testimony.

There goes all your reports of explosions being heard.

I guess the truthseeker cultists believe that it's ok to accept, without question, government reports when it's convenient for them. But for outsiders to point out this behavior or exploit it to thier own advantage is a heinous blasphemy and sacrelige.

Cult brainwashing at it's finest.

Were you banned, or permenantly suspended?

I think that's their new strategy: They don't actually ban you, and don't contact you about it so they can claim it was a mistake, if they are cornered. None of the mods have to take responsibility for their heavy-handed actions, which are so contrary to the spirit of truth and freedom that they preach.

 

[VespaGuy]

The cter's are breaking down into factions for their own "troooth".

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7186

Fun to watch the "I'm the king of my site and all I survey" schisms begin as each becomes their own saviors.

From that thread:

(djlegacy describing his new CT website/forums)

I just added about 100 Smileys for all of you Emoticon lovers, like me and Rox

You're not a real CT until you litter your posts with smileys!!

 

[MarkyX]

PWNED at YouTube

A small conversation I had on YouTube. I believe I need a PWNED image.

Name has been hidden to protect the stupid.

The fact that you are using the exact video of those you are trying to rebut already sets you up to have no credibility whatsoever. I bet it took you a longer time to add your "genius" quotes into "their" movie than it took you to make the quotes. Moving on.....your sources. All websites lack in any substantial secondary support or outside sources. The arguements presented in your terrible selection for sources all came from the commision report. If you didnt know this, the commision report is the exact thing the movie refutes. 911myths.com....you went to a website that is based off myths and not fact. What the movie does is give actual facts and puts them together in a way that makes us question the "truth" about 911. Dont even try to refute something that took 2 years to make with your ill-witted movie that took an hour to make.

There are no facts in Loose Change. A fact is a statement that cannot be proven otherwise beyond a reasonable doubt. The fact that there is my video, 911myths, and a few simple searches in Google can challenge EVERY statement in Loose Change should trigger something between your ears.

The truth is already out there about 9/11, but you just need something to justify your behavior and agenda against Bush or anything government related, so when real experts come forward, you ignore them because they don't set your own viewpoint. You are not the first person to contact me with your linear predictable critique, and it sure as hell won't be the last.

You are living proof that our education system is a failure.

"You are living proof that our education system is a failure."
In other words, "Bush, get your head out of your ass and fix it."
How about that for justification besides 911? And I hate to tell you, but I go to a private school that ranks top 25 academically. Thanks for putting words into my mouth that are non existent. Why would I need to use 911 in a desperate attempt to make Bush look like and ass when his approval rating is at an all time low. Also keep in mind that most of the people who have ranked him for approval have never even heard of loose change. Therefore, there is clearly enough **** to complain about Bush besides 911. In fact, he was and still is praised for 911 and how he brought us to have such patriotism. That’s one of the few things he is holding onto right now. Now don’t even pull out definitions and ****. You said a fact is something that cant be proven otherwise. What did loose change do with the commission report? Proved it otherwise. So the commission report isn’t fact either??? Who is telling the truth? Simply put, the movie is a damn good documentary that just wants to make us aware of our government. Yes, the American government could be corrupt without our knowledge. And you want to talk about real experts? THE MOVIE HAS REAL EXPERTS ON THEIR SIDE! 1. Military personnel knowing the smell of cordite and kerosene. 2. A janitor who had 20 years of experience in the Trade Centers and knew them like the back of his hands. 3. Head of Controlled Demolition saying the way the towers fell looked dead on to a controlled demolition. So yes, I am letting the real experts come forward and I’m NOT ignoring them. Lets not mention my obsession with national geographic and me watching documentary's on the commission reports side. So I thinks its safe to say my views aren’t biased ruling out me hating Bush. Please, argue with me more. It’s like a paid vacation to argue with you. I also want to hear something good from you. If you say something that really makes me question the makers of loose change I would have let you know. Nothing yet.

Do you know what "Critical Thinking" is?

It's a process in which the thinker improves the quality of his or her thinking by skillfully taking charge of the structures inherent in thinking and imposing intellectual standards upon them. Some examples of Critical Thinking are raising vital questions and problems, and using abstract ideas to come up with well-reasoned conclusions. Critical thinking is, in short, self-directed, self-disciplined, self-monitored, and self-corrective thinking.

I bring this up because it's quite obvious from the dozens of messages I get a day from pro-Loose Changer viewers like yourself that they do not practice the concept of Critical Thinking. Instead of questioning the credibility of Loose Change or do your own research, you accept the "film" as fact at face-value. Very ironic thing to do, because the one of the more common insults that Conspriacy Theorists use against those who defend the official story is "sheep". I guess it takes one to know one.

Second, you bring up George Bush about some useless facts from him exploiting 9/11 to go to Iraq to his approval ratings. I fail to see how this is evidence of a coverup, as opposed to George Bush being a lousy leader of the most powerful nation. This also shows your true agenda on the whole issue. You simply do not care about the victims or the "truth", instead you are looking for ways to justify your hate towards Bush more. Much like a scientist to a religion scholar, you shut off your senses because I am a threat to your faith and you will defend it by any means necessary including ignoring evidence. I guess it's pretty easy to attack the government, since they don't fight back.

Loose Change did not prove anything whatsoever that goes against the commission report or anything in the official story. Numerous sites and my video have exposed just how poorly manufactured the theories are. It is not my fault, or the government's fault, that you refuse evidence.

The experts? For starters, the pentagon is a military building, so it's not big surprise that cordite and kerosene would be inside the pentagon. Cordite is not used in missile, but in warships.

The janitor was no where near the incident and wasn't the one who ran for his life down the stairs, pleading to God that they find a fire fighter. He was hundreds of feet away from the incident and underground. His existence also goes against the whole "thermite bombs in the basement" that Steven E. Jones argues on his paper (not even peer reviewed by Structual Engineers).

Finally, CDI has stated already that the idea of WTC being bought down by bombs was impossible. They do not agree with you.

Just remember that on my side, I have structual engineers, the head of materials engineering at MIT, and several other engineers.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html

http://www.public-action.com/911/jmcm/clifton.pdf

And something about Steven E. Jones. Notice how Structual Engineers disagree with him.

http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/jones.htm

Continue on your journey chasing shadows. I'm sure we can make it into an interesting japanese animation series.

 

[Brainster]

Here's what I don't understand. Based on the numerous CTers who've posted to these related threads (at this forum), I'd say none reveal any indication they have learned anything and their position would as a result be modified or reevaluated.

Me, I completely dig learning new things, not to mention expanding my expertise on topics I enjoy a passing familiarity with. And if I'm error anywhere, I wanna know. That way I can make the fix so as to not reveal ignorance and/or continue to embarrass myself. I'm eager to make necessary adjustments inside my skull!

Now, ego may play a part in the apparent reluctance for CTers to change. But that "logic" escapes me as well, considering most are anonymous entities with identities shrouded behind noms-de-keyboard. The only one likely to ever know they adapted is their own self.

All this is all the more perplexing considering so many components of the alternate 9/11 theories are so far beyond rationality. And considering the official story is simple, sufficiently detailed, and fairly dripping with common sense, it's all the more...mystifying.

Two things:

1. Every CTer is a pedant at heart. They are the teachers, we are the pupils.
Our evidence is not interesting to them; in many ways it just represents our unwillingness to learn.

2. The CTer has the trump card for the evidence that disproves their theory: It's all part of the coverup. "Gravy is CIA" is an effective debunking of a 145-page document.

 

[Hellbound]

Huntsman, do your figures apply to the sort of linear shaped charges used by professional demolition contractors in the civilian market, or do they apply to the use of bulk explosives to break things by brute force?

Either way the CTer claims seem to go smash against ugly reality- if you postulate the use of shaped charges to cut the steel (and kicker charges to prevent the cut ends from jamming together and continuing to act in compression), the question of how the conspirators could have gained the direct access to structural members that would require and conceal all trace of their activities in a working office building. If you assume bulk explosives, then the question becomes one of how you bring in and place such large quantities of explosives while concealing your activities and avoid producing the signs that such a big KABOOM would leave behind.

I don't suppose there's any way of working out the minimum time to plant those charges, ie time taken to drill into concrete or steel + time taken to plant C-4, just to give an idea of how ridiculous the idea of fitting the whole thing into the power down periods that they suggest?

Sorry, I made a mistake. I realized this was the calculation I did assuming the existence of a concrete core (a la Christophera).

However, if anyone can get me a volume of concrete for the amount in the building (in cubic feet), I can easily convert it to a good, round figure. Of course, if the floors are thinner than 4' thick (a good assumption), you'd need more charges and a higher total. Thinking about it, I probably need to get info on the thickness and dimensions of floors, and I can refigure the amounts and number of charges. TO be nice, I can figure it with the charges placed on the outside of the floor (for ease of placement) and the inside (for lower total C-4).

As for the time it would require, hard to say. I'll need to look at the numbers again.

ktesibios:

SHaped charges would be useless for pulverizing concrete. Shaped charges are used for cutting, as they direct the blast in a specific direction. IF you want to pulverize all the concrete, you'll end up needing MORE explosives using shaped charges, as well as exponentially increasing the required time for placement. You want an undirected blast to pulverize the concrete, preferrably placed so the blast is just enough to breech the concrete side-to-side (or top-to-bottom).

On the steel beams, it works out to an average 64 lb. charge to cut each beam (more for outer core beams, less for inner). That is an unshaped charge, simply a single-side placement. Shaped you can easily cut that figure in half. So, about a ton and you cut cut all the core columns in one location, assuming you had direct access to the steel.

However, if you back off the steel, even a few feet, suddenly your shaped charges are much less effective. It's an exponential scale using r[sup3[/sup]. Basically, if you place the explosive twice as far away, you need eight times as much. Even a foot away is enough to significantly add to the amount of explosive needed.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Were you banned, or permenantly suspended?

I think that's their new strategy: They don't actually ban you, and don't contact you about it so they can claim it was a mistake, if they are cornered. None of the mods have to take responsibility for their heavy-handed actions, which are so contrary to the spirit of truth and freedom that they preach.

Nope, I definately got banned.

Not that it really matters as Johndoe just got MASSIVELY embarassed and humiliated over his "realistic collapse plume" nonsense.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7139&st=90

I guess he should have checked with reality before arbitrarily deciding what was realistic.

 

[Pangea]

What History Channel are you watching? I'm seeing "Snackfood Tech" on Modern Marvels!


(Or would be if I hadn't had Comcast Cable take away my History Channel service after "Psychic History.")

Oops! It was the History International Channel.
Sorry!

 

[Trifikas]

Nope, I definately got banned.

Not that it really matters as Johndoe just got MASSIVELY embarassed and humiliated over his "realistic collapse plume" nonsense.

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7139&st=90

I guess he should have checked with reality before arbitrarily deciding what was realistic.

Someone needs to go over and thank JohnDoeX for finally destroying the "Fell into it's own footprint" myth once and for all, however...