Loose Change - Part III

[Johnny Pixels]

I've been quietly following this thread (and the hijinks over at the LC forums) since it began. But I found this thread over at LC to be very telling:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7124

It's started by LiveFreeorDieTryin who calls his father a coward for not believing "the truth". (Whether his story is true, who knows.) Other Loosers begin chiming in and relaying their conflicts with relatives or they offer an excuse for why said relative is ignoring them.

What's funny to me, is that they all mention how smart the 'unbelieving' relative is (colek's father is a lawyer, pr0mythius parents have a PHD and 3 masters between them, JerryB9105's son was the first in his family to go to college, etc). But they never seem to make the link between intelligence and critical thinking.

That whole thread is just sad.

(sorry for the derail)

I've just had a look at this thread. This was the post that got me:

He goes into the kitchen and grabs some box cutters, comes into my room and holds them up to my face with the other hand holding my by the scruff of my jacket, yelling and screaming telling me to imagine what it felt like, saying im detached and all that, I'm telling him to look at how crazy he is becoming and that we should just stop talking about it and accept a difference of opinion but he continues to do this crap for about 2-3 minutes. I was disguisted.

Call the police, or DFS, that's got to be illegal.

Threatening someone with box cutters is illegal? But they're such a useless weapon. Why didn't he just laugh in his face like his hero Dylan Avery would?

 

[XXX]

The Fetzer interview with dental hygenist, I mean mechanical engineer, Judy Wood is up. For those who are interested in this idiot. The very end when he starts sobbing is hilarious.

http://mp3.rbnlive.com/Fetzer06.html

Listening to this wing nut right now.

I still love the idea that the WTC fires only reach 500 degrees f. My oven gets that hot.

MY god, this is funny stuff. She talks about the towers being "like trees" and then says that trees don't turn into sawdust on the way down! And to top it all of, Fetzer laughs and tells her "That's a perfect parallel!!" Holy crap! That's LOL funnny!!

 

[Brainster]

The 9/11 scholars journal message board is fascinating. Way to go, gentlemen, in defending science.

Every Sat, the truthers go down to the WTC with some pamphlets and banners. A few saturdays ago I went down there and was amazed by the amount of information these people didn't know. This sat, I'm going back with a comedic piece that I wrote proving that I was responsible and links to Gravy's piece and the 911myths site. This time I will stand across the street with my own placard as last time people just assumed I was another CTer.

I certainly don't expect that I will change any of their minds, but maybe some people will think before they jump on the loose change bandwagon. Or not. But, hell, it'll make for a good video.

Hi Abby! Be sure to let us know when your report on this weekend's mission is ready for linkage! For the rest of you, the piece that she wrote showing that she was responsible for 9/11 was terrific. We linked it over at SLC a couple weeks ago.

 

[JamesB]

I've just had a look at this thread. This was the post that got me:



Threatening someone with box cutters is illegal? But they're such a useless weapon. Why didn't he just laugh in his face like his hero Dylan Avery would?

Or hit him with his luggage, like Jim Fetzer

Fetzer: One thing I thought about these hijackers that is kind of bizarre. If I had encountered a bunch of hijackers with boxcutters, I would have taken my luggage and beat ‘em to death.

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/06/you-need-credit-card-to-do-that.html

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

This just in: Blizzard's cutest (if somewhat ban-happy) forum mod (pictured here on the right-hand side of the infamous Leeroy Jenkins: http://www.thepalsforlife.com/images/Leeroy/KdmLeeroyCoreiel.jpg ) has just drop-kicked the WoW Off-Topic forums village idiot for spewing 9-11 conspiracy bilge.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-off-topic&t=1727916&p=1&tmp=1#post1727916

"Babbycakes" debating style seems oddly similar to Prof. Fetzer's. Coincidence?

 

[JamesB]

Listening to this wing nut right now.

I still love the idea that the WTC fires only reach 500 degrees f. My oven gets that hot.

MY god, this is funny stuff. She talks about the towers being "like trees" and then says that trees don't turn into sawdust on the way down! And to top it all of, Fetzer laughs and tells her "That's a perfect parallel!!" Holy crap! That's LOL funnny!!

So if you had a big enough axe, you could just chop down a 110 story building and lay it on its side intact? that is just bizarre.

 

[Brainster]

Or hit him with his luggage, like Jim Fetzer

That was a classic example of the callousness of these toads. Yes, everybody would rush a hijacker now and fight him to the death. But pre-9/11 the recommendation of the experts was to cooperate, knowing that all of this would probably be resolved on the tarmac in Malta.

 

[pgwenthold]

That was a classic example of the callousness of these toads. Yes, everybody would rush a hijacker now and fight him to the death. But pre-9/11 the recommendation of the experts was to cooperate, knowing that all of this would probably be resolved on the tarmac in Malta.

And keep in mind that for at least one of the flights that hit the WTC (if not both), very few of the passengers in coach even knew the plane was hijacked. The hijackers tried to announce it, but said it to the radio and not the cabin. The flight attendant that called (Betty?) said they had told coach passengers there was something else going on. All of the activity was up in first class.

 

[60hzxtl]

I think you guys are wrong about Fetzer.

He does seem to have a lot of baggage. . .

 

[Gravy]

Fetzer's a couple bezels shy of a diffuser case.

I just caught this. Thanks for making me laugh, Brainster!

 

[Gravy]

I just listened to the Fetzer/Colmes mp3.
Did I hear Fetzer right that he claimed that the Scholars count civil engineers among thier ranks? I just did a quick search of thier members list and found the words "structural engineer" appears only twice. Both times next to the names of associate members (not FULL members) and each time the structural engineering is listed second, after what I assume is thier main field of expertise?

I have emailed Fetzer and Jones four times about this and have not received a reply. I haven't been able to find anything that verifies ST911's claim that these people are professionals in the fields listed. Notice how they cleverly say, "John Doe, structural engineering," not "structural engineer." AFAIK, that designation merely indicates an area of interest. No credentials are given for any of these people. If they actually had credentialed structural engineers on board they'd be trumpeting that news to the heavens. My conclusion: they don't.

There is one guy, Ken Wrenn, whose title is "Civil Engineer," so that's something to look into. I didn't come up with anything except some comments made by a guy with the same name in a town meeting about the local recycling center. Could be he's a "sanitation engineer."

Here's the list of people on their site that I've queried Jones and Fetzer about:

Jean-Pierre Petit (FM) Aeronautics, astrophysics, engineering

Brian Duncan (AM) Fire Protection Engineering; Art and Creative Director; The Flywire, theflywire.com

Eric Hermanson (AM) Engineering Physics, Nuclear Engineering, Software Architect

Michael Lovingier (AM) Information technology manager , Structural/Environmental Engineering

Ted Muga (AM) Naval aviator; Commercial pilot; Structural engineering

RC Oliver, Jr. (AM) Chief Engineer (Google comes up with an RC Oliver who, as of 1999, was a marine engineer in England.)

Why not email the head wingnuts and ask them about this?
James H. Fetzer [email protected]
Steven E. Jones [email protected]

Another technique would be for those who run debunking websites to list these people and state, "I challenge anyone to prove that these are structural engineers." Then maybe come CT will take the bait and come up with some credentials.

 

[Gravy]

Further, if they did get a tanker and paint it up like a commercial airliner, then they still have the task of disposing of those real commercial airliners that were supposed to be hijacked. I mean, there are four missing planes now, and no one would deny that, right?

Dylan Avery, in a radio interview with Daniel Ott: "I would like to think that these four planes are still flying around."

 

[Ducky]

Dylan Avery, in a radio interview with Daniel Ott: "I would like to think that these four planes are still flying around."

Bah.

I would like to think I am a rock star.

Thinking ain't making it happen.

 

[Gravy]

I thought it was reported that some of those calls were collect.

Yes, some were, such as at least one of the calls Barbara Olson made to her husband from her personal phone. That's the one Avery says couldn't have happened because she wouldn't have been able to get her credit card out of her purse.

$&*^(*&()&$^%#^(&)(*_* !

 

[XXX]

Just finished the Fetzer/Wood interview show.

It's a total comedy act. I laughed out loud when she talked about the grand piano and the "parachute effect"...just listen to it, the whole thing is horrible. "Where are the pankakes?" There's at least 4 WTF?! moments in this. I can't believe people would say such stupid things.

Ever notice how most everything in the 9/11 truth movment is a (bad) analogy? Lots more of them in this interview.

So according to "Professor" Woods, it should have taken the WTC 97 seconds to collapse. OK....And all structural engineers in the world are keeping silent according to Fetzer, and they all have a special place reserved for them in hell for not standing up to the official story (his wording).

Just an unbelieveable interview. And I love how every caller that brings their own "anaylsis" about the collapse is immedietly praised by Fetzer as he instantly accepts whatever they are saying as "an excellent point".

 

[Gravy]

Alright, I'm angry now. I'm going to go after the Scholars with everything I've got. Anybody who's compiled information on these guys, I want to know about it. I know James has a spreadsheet on them. Laura Ingraham is going to have Fetzer on tomorrow. I'm going to transcribe a few of the choicer bits from the Colmes show and send them to her; I think she'll be very angry at the Barbara Olsen's alive claim. Fetzer also said some embarrassing things at that Chicago convention a few weeks ago.

Hoorah! Yes, these are the biggest hypocrites of all. At least Avery and pals have the excuse, which they now choose to use, that they're just young idiots. But to call yourselves "Scholars," and then to produce the most anti-scholarly material imaginable, is disgusting.

I think it's important to point out that these papers have supposedly gone through peer-review by other "scholars": http://worldtradecentertruth.com/

Yes, they have been reviewed by the authors' peers: other idiots. These aren't drafts, they're finished products supposedly fit for an academic journal! Bwahahahaha!

And then to point out how the papers don't even stand up to scrutiny by non-experts. http://www.atfreeforum.com/911studies/viewforum.php?f=2&mforum=911studies

 

[Johnny Pixels]

Another technique would be for those who run debunking websites to list these people and state, "I challenge anyone to prove that these are structural engineers." Then maybe come CT will take the bait and come up with some credentials.

Maybe I should start crediting myself as Johnny Pixels, BEng (Hons) Automotive Engineering. I did try using it on the LC forum but they wanted to know how I could criticise an engineer who'd been working in his field for ages, when I had not worked in my field of expertise. I said that it was because he failed to display any of the training he received as an engineer, namely analytical thinking, and so he wasn't speaking as an engineer, ie just because he's an engineer doesn't make everything he says true in an engineering sense. I got fed up with them and got myself banned on purpose, so I had sign up again because I didn't want to miss out on the ninja wave.

 

[JamesB]

Why not email the head wingnuts and ask them about this?
James H. Fetzer [email protected]
Steven E. Jones [email protected]

Another technique would be for those who run debunking websites to list these people and state, "I challenge anyone to prove that these are structural engineers." Then maybe come CT will take the bait and come up with some credentials.

That sounds like a good idea. I might have to do more on this when I get the chance. Lately most of CTs seem to be ignoring us. I guess we are not worthy of their attention.

Could Jones' e-mail be any more arrogant?

 

[Gravy]

The 9/11 scholars journal message board is fascinating. Way to go, gentlemen, in defending science.

Every Sat, the truthers go down to the WTC with some pamphlets and banners. A few saturdays ago I went down there and was amazed by the amount of information these people didn't know. This sat, I'm going back with a comedic piece that I wrote proving that I was responsible and links to Gravy's piece and the 911myths site. This time I will stand across the street with my own placard as last time people just assumed I was another CTer.

I certainly don't expect that I will change any of their minds, but maybe some people will think before they jump on the loose change bandwagon. Or not. But, hell, it'll make for a good video.

I'll be out there, handing out the link to my debunk of their literature. Thanks, Abby!

 

[Ducky]

That sounds like a good idea. I might have to do more on this when I get the chance. Lately most of CTs seem to be ignoring us. I guess we are not worthy of their attention.

Could Jones' e-mail be any more arrogant?

If I had less self control I'd find neat porn sites to sign up for with those emails and post them on usenet asking for scat porn.