Loose Change - Part II

[60hzxtl]

Factually correct, but in terms of strategy, and overall goal, the focus was on Germany.

Perhaps my mistake for short rather than detailed answer.

Nothing wrong with wiki on those citations, but bucket brigade encyclopedia is not for me.

 

[Curnir]

Factually correct, but in terms of strategy, and overall goal, the focus was on Germany.

Perhaps my mistake for short rather than detailed answer.

ahh yes the strategic focus was definately on the European theater.

 

[CptColumbo]

Don't forget that Germany declared war on the US Dec. 11th, 1941.

 

[Pardalis]

Comparisons between completely different events from completely different eras are always risky buisiness.

 

[kookbreaker]

Comparisons between completely different events from completely different eras are always risky buisiness.

But don't you see? Henry V wanted an incident with France to restart the war! The paralells with the Bush administration are uncnanny!!!!

 

[Johnny Pixels]

Basically any event with a fairly simple and logical explanation will have an equal and opposite conspiracy theory that is both needlessly complex and illogical.

 

[Gravy]

I just came across this sticky note on my computer. It's a quote by CT blogger who had just seen the movie "United 93." To me this perfectly sums up the mind-boggling nature of 9/11 CT thought:

"I actually saw the movie yesterday, and being a firm believer of the inside job, I think they did a very good job unfortunately. If someone sees this movie before Loose Change, it would make it twice as hard to try and make yourself disbelieve the Government's story. The movie makes the events much more real to the viewer, it's a shame what this movie will accomplish."

Posted by UNSCleric on Saturday, April 29, 2006 at 7:02 AM

 

[Abbyas]

*The movie makes the events much more real to the viewer, it's a shame what this movie will accomplish."

Phrases like that make me want to throw up.

 

[Pardalis]

Were their parents around at all when they grew up? Are TV, movies and the internet their only source to formulate their judgment?

 

[Hutch]

Were their parents around at all when they grew up? Are TV, movies and the internet their only source to formulate their judgment?

And that is something I have also thought having spent time in LC. There are a couple who can work with theory and do some legwork (Russell Pickering, payt, ever Merc the Jerk now and then) but the vast majority of it seems to be "Look at this clip" or "Look at this guys' tape", with much oohing and aahing and copious use of similies. But not much in the way of analysis and review or options for further study.

There is now way to prove it, but I rather think the ages there skew fairly young, people brought up with and around the electronic/computer revolution
and who are more comfortable looking at movies or pictures and drawing conclusions than reading big, dull reports with lots of math and symbols.

I just hope that is it not to widespread yet, or I fear for the nation my grandnieces and nephews yet unborn will face...

I remember an old Science Fiction story--The Marching Morons--of how the very few smart people in the future labored to provide for the vast majority of people who simply couldn't be bothered to think. I hope this is fantasy and not future history.

OK, that's enough gloom (gotta go finish my laundy and hang up my shirts neatly )

 

[Polaris]

That urban legend has been going on for years. We sold Saddam some industrial chemicals, which could have been used in the production of chemical weapons, big deal, most of the chemicals known to man could harm someone in some form or another. And we sold him some civilian helicopters which could have been converted to military use. Somehow this has mutated to "Reagan gave Saddam all his weapons"

Iraqi weaponry was almost exclusively Soviet, Chinese and French. This is not opinion, or speculation, it is fact. Just look at all the stuff we blew up, not an American tank or APC among them.

And it's gobbled up as gospel truth by anybody who has an axe to grind against the United States. You tend to see this claim in sentences like this: "Well the US armed Saddam just like they created the Taliban to fight the Russians and the CIA bankrolled Osama." With all the nasty, underhanded crap done during the Cold War, all the "anti-Communist" excesses (many of which are overblown to show nothing more than the Big Bad Americans being, well, evil for no reason) provide plenty of ammunition to tarnish the US. No need to make stuff up.

 

[60hzxtl]

Were their parents around at all when they grew up? Are TV, movies and the internet their only source to formulate their judgment?

Yes, and "Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia" is their source, even if it is a bucket brigade, with no fact check.

I judge kids projects for History day every year at the Museum of the City of NY. Entire projects are based on Web info and citations. It get circular.

I point to myself on IMDB.com. and find 6 films, (of dozens) I've worked on listed under my name - yet of the 6, I never did a day on 2 of them!

Maybe we should start a Wikipedia debunking thread.

 

[Curnir]

soo should I feel ashamed, since I used wikipedia for some quick reference regarding dates for incidents leading to US involment in the diffrent theaters of world war II?

 

[60hzxtl]

soo should I feel ashamed, since I used wikipedia for some quick reference regarding dates for incidents leading to US involment in the diffrent theaters of world war II?

No, no, no no.

If that was your ONLY reference to WW2 yes.

As a whole Wiki is pretty good, but in isolated cases it can be as screwy as the last editor.

Your info on WW2 can be cross referenced, and found elsewhere, you quoted it because it was a fast rebuttal of my short and spotty analogy, but if you told me you were up there with Samuel Elliott Morrison, because you had read Wiki, I'd give you an uh, huh.

The Wiki refence was not aimed at you, by any stretch, just my general frustration at the crowd that thinks that if you read it on the web it's fact. Which is how we got to the CT thread in the first place.

For my next trick I'll need a volunteer - watch as the audio Ninja tries to get his foot out of his mouth.


I did say "Nothing wrong with wiki on those citations. . . " But you knew the facts before hand, and went to Wiki for the details.

 

[WildCat]

soo should I feel ashamed, since I used wikipedia for some quick reference regarding dates for incidents leading to US involment in the diffrent theaters of world war II?

Check out kiwiwriter's WWII site:
http://www.usswashington.com/dl_index.htm

 

[Orphia Nay]

You know, I always thought the "we supported Iraq before" argument was bogus, even if true.

If it was true, doesn't that make it that much more our responsibility to correct the problem?

If I sold someone a gun, then found out they used it to shoot their wife, you can d@mn well believe I'd feel partly responsible. Of course, in this situation, I'd be more likely to go to the police and reveal what I knew than try to track the person down on my own...but still.

Likewise, if I donate to a charity, then later find out that the charity is a fraud, you can also believe that I'll do what I can to make sure they get exposed for what they are.

So, even assuming that we did support Iraq in earlier years, even assuming we did provide them with weapons, that just makes it that much more our responsibility to take care of the situation.

Just my 3 cents (inflation).

Exactly. I was going to raise that point, but you have done it much better than what I'd formulated, although I was going to mention the USA's duty to Afghanistan as well.

CTists are so convinced that it is inconceivable that the government can do any good for anyone, it's a wonder they're not all dead from crossing against red traffic lights.

 

[RandFan]

CTists are so convinced that it is inconceivable that the government can do any good for anyone, it's a wonder they're not all dead from crossing against red traffic lights.

Yeah, the jack booted feds. Most if not all fringe groups have a deep seated mistrust of anything government. I like the highways, I like that earthquakes in America (California) don't cause anywhere near the death and destruction that equally strong earthquakes in other nations do. I'm Libertarian but I like a lot of the things government does and I don't automatically distrust government. I have a healthy skepticism of their power and the ability to flush my tax money down a toilet but that's par for the course.

 

[Orphia Nay]

...
And to you Ninja Wave folks...I'm feeling left out, being a lowly government shill who's never posted at LC. I think I'm gonna join that Humor Revolution thingy, cause then I'll feel just a little more, ya know, special. Have you totally joined forces with them, or not? Cause I don't have time for the Humor thing if it doesn't get me closer to ninja wave status.

Is there a JREF government shill avatar?

Hi Mr Skinny. Posting at LC will get you closer to ninja wave status.

The ninja wave are honorary rebels at this point. As a rebel, believe me, being part of the fun in the humour forum is often a welcome respite from ninja duties at LC. (Being skinny would be an advantage, as our chef, JLam, is away getting married, and all we've got are Kelly's brownies, which make you skinnier in a rather unpleasant way.)

I'm not sure what a government shill avatar would look like (any thoughts?) but I found a cool illuminati smilie.

 

[Brainster]

soo should I feel ashamed, since I used wikipedia for some quick reference regarding dates for incidents leading to US involment in the diffrent theaters of world war II?

You shouldn't use it as a source per se, but as a source of sources. That is, look at the links and link to those. It's not about shame, it's about credibility.

 

[Trifikas]

Well, hoping we can finally stamp "Busted" (a 'la Mythbusters) on the controlled demo theory:
___________________________________________________
Quote from: http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aCuh.ATdfOXc&refer=top_world_news
Buckling Steel

According to Shyam-Sunder, the concave bowing of the steel was seen on the sides of the towers opposite where the planes hit them. At 10:06 a.m. that morning, an officer in a police helicopter reported that ``it's not going to take long before the north tower comes down.'' This was 20 minutes before it collapsed. In another radio transmission at 10:21 a.m., the officer said he saw buckling in the north tower's southern face, Shyam-Sunder said.

The report includes photographs taken from police helicopters showing the bending columns.
___________________________________________


If explosives were used, the Towers wouldn't show signs of Buckling 20 minutes before hand. Can we get further info on it? and pics, if the report is available.