Loose Change - Part II

[MarkyX]

Actually I'm finding all that quite sexy.



ETA. MarkyX. Fantastic job. The films made me very upset, made me laugh at how silly the CTers are, yet mad at the same time. Unlike LC, which just made me want to vomit.

I'm the next version of Karl Rove, as AllahPundit puts it

 

[Belz...]

These look like a happy bunch enjoying themselves like in a garden party, considering the gravity of what they are saying.

They don't look like people worried about their government being mass murderers on their own people.

Are smileys a disease or something ? People over at Loose Change seem to have contracted it.

 

[Belz...]

It resembles geggy's "post a link and run" routine.

Or Kilik's "post a hundred links and run" routine.

 

[Belz...]

Plaguepuppy at Loose Change has this to say:

Yes, I know that's quite a jump. It implies that the NWO scenario currently unfolding has been laid out in great detail over a long period of time, something that makes the world seem rather a scary place. Given a choice I would much rather not believe this, and would like to imagine that the 9-11 plot was just cooked up by some "bad apples" within the intelligence agencies and military. But this degree of advanced planning would require the entire "ruling class" here in the US, or at least its controlling elements, would have to have been on board with the conspiracy for a very long time. Not an especially comforting thing to contemplate, but if it's true it would be very important to know.

Yes. I'm sure the "NWO" has been planning the invasion of Iraq since the sixties. Why ? Hey!! I'm just asking questions...

No wait, I'm not...

 

[dubfan]

While we wait for SBrown's response, I found this only post of this thread that mentions Edmonds:



Correct me if I'm wrong Dubfan, but you weren't accusing Edmonds of being a fraud, but mearely indicating that these are the things the more rational CTs are focusing on.

Yes, that's right.

 

[delphi_ote]

Just a reminder who SBrown is:

Hi I am new here and was looking around a little bit and realized something I wanted information on. The 911 CT seems to be the biggest going right now, and the movement seems to be growing if you believe the Zogby poll.

So my question is if it is so easy to attack this movement and prove it wrong, why has James Randi himself not written anything that directly attacks and debunks the supposed holes that the CT'rs claim? It seems to me this would be better publicity and recognition for him than hunting silly psychics and dog intuitions?

If he does have attacked it could someone point me to his research?

So you say James Randi does not feel the need to touch this subject. I am awaiting his reply from my email from him.

It seems as though 911 CT's are starting to gain momentum. You guys seem very in tune to counteracting these theories. I look around and see this thread has 119 pages about the loose change group, yet no other threads that I see counteracting any other 911 CT group. Is this because the loose change group is the biggest/strongest or most threatening? Or is this because they are the weakest and easiest targets?

My last question is there does not seem to be a lot of folks that are here disputing your claims. Is this a common belief within this form that there is no chance that 911 was not an inside job? Or are people not willing to challenge the stronger members of this forum?

Thank you.

Hi I ran across this and after reading through it found it an interesting piece. Just wondering what others thought of it, my math skills are a bit rusty.
[modm]edited for rule 4 violation

Consider this a warning. Further violations of the user agreement may result in suspension. [/modm]

original text here.

Along with the most recent posts, these are the only "questions" asked. SBrown has only posted in 9/11 threads (this one and another he/she created.)

Who's getting the run around?

 

[dubfan]

Following one of MarkyX's links we find the following

This is such a great paragraph. This was exactly my thoughts. That anything and everything that even remotely seemed to prove conspiracy was thrown into the mix. The "truth movement" is making no efforts, as far as I can tell, to create any coherent hypothesis. "We're only asking questions". Yeah? Well get back to me when you've got something more than questions.

That guy is a gifted writer. He's been writing about aviation for Salon for years. I'm so glad he decided to address the 9/11 CTs. That piece is very typical for him.

 

[dubfan]

Is Sibel Edmonds a fraud? Does anyone have any information to discredit her as having inside knowledge? Do you think she may be doing this for publicity? Do you think she may be a double agent?

I think she must be discredited completely because this looks very bad to have someone risk jail and a career to perpetuate a hoax. So she must be working for some other government then. She is from Turkey right? Maybe she is a plant that made it high in government work? I have heard of the old Soviets doing this back in the height of the cold war. How could we find out who she is really working for?

The Sibel Edmonds case does not argue that 9/11 was an inside job. It argues that the FBI is riddled with incompetent middle managers, and that there is some funny business indeed going on in the FBI's translation unit of the Washington Field office.

At best (for a CT), the Edmonds material is an argument for the LIHOP scenario.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I don't think such a lawsuit would succeed, but I'm no lawyer. I'm sure someone might get lawyered up and have a go. I recall some lawsuits against rock stars, by persons claiming the lyrics made them do things, failed. Dylan also placed the handy disclaimer "Do your own research" on his website.

Perhaps we should take pity on Professor Jones. Do you have an email address? If so, send the instant remedy to Loose Change induced depression - a link to Gravy's Viewers Guide.

It was Judas Priest who were sued by the families of two boys who shot themselves after listening to thier records. The suit was dismissed from court and never saw trial. The issue at the center of the lawsuit was wether JP put subliminal pro-suicide messages into thier records (when interviewed on TV, JP members said if they were going to insert subliminal messages, they would say "Buy more of our records").

With Loose Change, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of subliminal messages. What they do have is a very clearly stated, ultra-depressing message based on claims the makers know to be false.

I'm just an armchair lawyer myself, so I can't be certain.

As for Jones, as I said in my first post here, he has made claims that are as irresponsible and dishonest as any of the 9-11 con artists. While it's not unethical for a scientist to come up with a theory that later turns out to be wrong, Jones's claims of being recieving threats and bribes from agents of the Department of Homeland Security are inexcusable.

I won't be feeling any pity for Jones when his lies blow up in his face. he's bringing it on himself. He lost the right to point at Alex Jones and Dylan Avery and claim they misled him when he started making up stories about the MIBs giong after him to artificially inflate his image among the other conspiradroids.

 

[Brainster]

Yeah, I tried asking him permission about it but never got a reply

I feel really bad though because some people are thinking it's my work when it isn't, and I pointed them to the proper places when they did via email. I just wanted to act now because they made that final cut announcement, and since it's only a few months away from Sept 11, something needed to be done.

I only made this video not only to discredit loose change, but to get the ball rolling on perhaps other projects made by the people who are sick of this constant anal rape of the 9/11 victims.

It was a great job, an amazing job. Let me remind people here that I don't think Gravy had his name on either the webpage, or the doc file so folks didn't know whom to credit. I've still got it as "a friend of the blog" in the top post on Screw Loose Change because when Gravy posted over there he used the name "Truth", so I wasn't sure it was the same person at first (of course, I am now).

There's an old saying that there's no limit to what you can accomplish if you don't care who gets the credit. I'm sure that Markyx will give Gravy loads of credit on the Final Cut!

 

[Polaris]

I couldn't provide links before. I think while editing I messed that one up.

I am trying to get help on debating I have been doing on a different forum. I have come here a few times asking questions and get nothing but a run around. I understand it is not your job to answer, nor is this just a general 911 thread, but it seems to get a lot of traffic.

This is a thread about the Loose Change video - specifically about debunking a dishonest slander "documentary" claiming that 9/11 was not the work of al-Qaida, and instead a super-secret government conspiracy to do...something.
The thread had to be split because it is now running 160 pages long.

And your avatar has you listed as "student" - so you can post links.

 

[Polaris]

Wich reminds me, why aren't there more LC enthousiasts coming here? If they are 100% sure of what they are saying (wich is much more certainty than I will ever have about anything), what are they afraid of?

That's the same question I ask religious fundamentalists who boycott books/movies/radio shows (or worse, threaten violence against the talent) because it contradicts their fragile world-views. How strong could their belief be if one person somewhere disagreeing could shatter everything? (Come to think of it, I just described the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God)

 

[Polaris]

Following one of MarkyX's links we find the following

This is such a great paragraph. This was exactly my thoughts. That anything and everything that even remotely seemed to prove conspiracy was thrown into the mix. The "truth movement" is making no efforts, as far as I can tell, to create any coherent hypothesis. "We're only asking questions". Yeah? Well get back to me when you've got something more than questions.

Asking questions is useless when answers aren't listened to.

 

[RandFan]

It was a great job, an amazing job. Let me remind people here that I don't think Gravy had his name on either the webpage, or the doc file so folks didn't know whom to credit. I've still got it as "a friend of the blog" in the top post on Screw Loose Change because when Gravy posted over there he used the name "Truth", so I wasn't sure it was the same person at first (of course, I am now).

There's an old saying that there's no limit to what you can accomplish if you don't care who gets the credit. I'm sure that Markyx will give Gravy loads of credit on the Final Cut!

As one who started to compile similar information and make a blow by blow rebuttal and giving up since I simply didn't have the time the project needed I need to say that what Gravy did was an outstanding job. My hats off to him and he absolutely deserves credit for the work.

I do like the result's MarkyX's work and I'm glad it is out there.

 

[MarkyX]

It was a great job, an amazing job. Let me remind people here that I don't think Gravy had his name on either the webpage, or the doc file so folks didn't know whom to credit. I've still got it as "a friend of the blog" in the top post on Screw Loose Change because when Gravy posted over there he used the name "Truth", so I wasn't sure it was the same person at first (of course, I am now).

There's an old saying that there's no limit to what you can accomplish if you don't care who gets the credit. I'm sure that Markyx will give Gravy loads of credit on the Final Cut!

I decided to do something somewhat easier.

Simply pointed out on the home page that (This was my main source. Thank you Gravy for this)

Hopefully this is an acceptable approuch.

 

[Kage]

What exactly is the LIHOP conspiracy theory? I might have missed this being covered a while back on this thread. Thanks

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

What exactly is the LIHOP conspiracy theory? I might have missed this being covered a while back on this thread. Thanks

Let It Happen On Purpose, a la the gov't knew about Pearl Harbor, Lusitania, 9/11 etc

 

[chipmunk stew]

Let It Happen On Purpose, a la the gov't knew about Pearl Harbor, Lusitania, 9/11 etc

As opposed to MIHOP--Made It Happen On Purpose. Controlled demolition, etc.

 

[delphi_ote]

As opposed to MIHOP--Made It Happen On Purpose. Controlled demolition, etc.

Also as opposed to IHOP -- The International House of Pancakes

Ninja vanish!

 

[Walk The Line]

Also as opposed to IHOP -- The International House of Pancakes

Ninja vanish!

Confound you, you line-stealing ninja!!!