Loose Change: I'm Sick About This

[delphi_ote]

Hi, Gravy. BTW, I've enjoyed several of your recent, thoroughly-researches posts.

A question: do the CTers actually do something about their beliefs ? I mean, they don't just sit in front of their computers and whine all day, shielded by their anonymity, do they ?

Do they ?

That was among my questions to them on the Loose Change forum. If they don't act like they believe the things they claim to believe. Like this little "documentary" recently posted. Why weren't they afraid of being sent to Guantanamo for "telling the truth?"

They're attention whores and nothing more.

 

[RandFan]

That was among my questions to them on the Loose Change forum. If they don't act like they believe the things they claim to believe. Like this little "documentary" recently posted. Why weren't they afraid of being sent to Guantanamo for "telling the truth?"

They're attention whores and nothing more.

Bingo, they say we live in a police state yet they come on the internet to accuse the government of mass murder and exposing a supposed "secret", huh? Does anyone buy that they really belive we live in a police state?

 

[Belz...]

They'll vilify eyewitnesses.
They'll vilify victims.

They'll prop up their theories by any means necessary. They all need a good spanking. Let's give 'em one.

Okay, that first link does it. I'm pi$$ed.

 

[Bronze Dog]

Hi, Gravy. BTW, I've enjoyed several of your recent, thoroughly-researches posts.

A question: do the CTers actually do something about their beliefs ? I mean, they don't just sit in front of their computers and whine all day, shielded by their anonymity, do they ?

Do they ?

That's one question I think we should occasionally ask ourselves.

I've occasionally prevented people in meatspace from buying into woo. I've donated to JREF. I made a comic that at least one person has stuck on a door for others to see. (Don't know the location of the door, but I'm hoping it's at school.)

Of course, our "whining" can prompt action: We can make people change their minds and votes through logic, though those Loose Change probably does some of the same with McCarthyist insinuation and innuendo, instead.

I suppose one thing we could do about the Loosers is if they come up with some Zammit Challenge or manefesto is to publish a full-blown dissection, logical fallacy by logical fallacy.

 

[Belz...]

That was among my questions to them on the Loose Change forum. If they don't act like they believe the things they claim to believe. Like this little "documentary" recently posted. Why weren't they afraid of being sent to Guantanamo for "telling the truth?"

They're attention whores and nothing more.

I mean, if I thought my government was a murderous, treacherous organisation, I'd get the hell out of canada.

 

[Belz...]

Bingo, they say we live in a police state yet they come on the internet to accuse the government of mass murder and exposing a supposed "secret", huh? Does anyone buy that they really belive we live in a police state?

And isn't accusing someone of murder libel in the US ?

 

[RandFan]

That's not in question. They have every right to spread misinformation about 9/11. And I have every right to expose their lies.

(Edited to add. Sorry, RandFan, I wasn't taking your post in context with the one you were responding to.)

No problem Gravy, I posted the quote from Mississippi burning to reveal how I feel about these a-holes. They are exploiting tragedy for their hoped for 15 minutes. And this Dylan bastard is getting it. I wish they could all be ignored but sometimes we have to turn on the lights and stomp on the cockroaches.

 

[chipmunk stew]

Hi, Gravy. BTW, I've enjoyed several of your recent, thoroughly-researches posts.

A question: do the CTers actually do something about their beliefs ? I mean, they don't just sit in front of their computers and whine all day, shielded by their anonymity, do they ?

Do they ?

They disrupt the 9/11 day of remembrance every year at Ground Zero by arguing with firemen, cornering 9/11 widows, and promoting their videos. They write 9/11 Truth website addresses on their money. They load videos from jump drives onto computer floor models. They approach college students with their videos and ask them to send them their feedback for a "research paper on people's reactions" to the films. They choose 9/11 Truth as a topic for classroom presentations and use clips from the videos. They spam other forums with links to websites and videos. They send videos to celebrities and other high-profile people.

What they don't seem to do is try to contact any primary sources or do any actual investigative work.

edit: They're admirably effective at spreading their woo. An effective response will have to be as dedicated and creative, I think. They need to be dogged relentlessly.

 

[delphi_ote]

They disrupt the 9/11 day of remembrance every year at Ground Zero by arguing with firemen, cornering 9/11 widows, and promoting their videos. They write 9/11 Truth website addresses on their money. They load videos from jump drives onto computer floor models. They approach college students with their videos and ask them to send them their feedback for a "research paper on people's reactions" to the films. They choose 9/11 Truth as a topic for classroom presentations and use clips from the videos. They spam other forums with links to websites and videos. They send videos to celebrities and other high-profile people.

What they don't seem to do is try to contact any primary sources or do any actual investigative work.

Why don't we disrupt their disruption this year?

 

[Belz...]

They disrupt the 9/11 day of remembrance every year at Ground Zero by arguing with firemen, cornering 9/11 widows, and promoting their videos.

Well, those globalist tyrants aren't doing their jobs very well in silencing "da truth".

 

[aggle-rithm]

That's one question I think we should occasionally ask ourselves.

I've occasionally prevented people in meatspace from buying into woo. I've donated to JREF. I made a comic that at least one person has stuck on a door for others to see. (Don't know the location of the door, but I'm hoping it's at school.)

Of course, our "whining" can prompt action: We can make people change their minds and votes through logic, though those Loose Change probably does some of the same with McCarthyist insinuation and innuendo, instead.

I suppose one thing we could do about the Loosers is if they come up with some Zammit Challenge or manefesto is to publish a full-blown dissection, logical fallacy by logical fallacy.

Well, at least we don't claim "Time is of the essence!" and "if we don't act quickly, the US will invade Iran!" and then just continue to whine impotently.

When I wonder what we can do about all this, I think about people who I know who are on the fence about the 911 conspiracy theories. The CT'ers come on very, very strong when pushing their agenda, so it seems that if rational people don't come on equally strong, the fence-sitters won't have any reason to doubt what they have been told about conspiracies. On the other hand, if we do this, the fence-sitters are apt to just dismiss the whole affair, saying it's just a difference of opinion, when it most certainly is not. It all comes down to intellectual laziness -- it's too much trouble to discern who is right and who is talking nonsense. This is frustrating since it only takes the slightest of effort to detect logical fallacies.

Fortunately, when these sorts of people actually come out of their caves and bring their lunacy to the public, the insanity of their position often becomes more evident. Maybe that's what will happen in New York.

Edited to add: After reading chipmunk stew's post, it doesn't seem that being exposed as lunatics will be much of a deterrent to them.

 

[tsg]

Who was it that said "I disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it?

Voltaire, I believe.

Well, even that altruist would arrange to be out of town on this one. I have no use whatsoever for these idiotic, pathetic excuses for homo sapiens! they are a total waste of space and intellect.

With the right to say whatever the hell you want comes the duty to take responsibility for what you say, including being thought a complete f***tard, for others having little sympathy when something tragic happens to you, and possibly getting punched in the mouth.

 

[brodski]

What they don't seem to do is try to contact any primary sources or do any actual investigative work.

Why should they? They already "know" the truth, why risk actual facts getting in the way?

 

[chipmunk stew]

Why don't we disrupt their disruption this year?

I'm thinking t-shirts that say "SHILL", "GOVERNMENT STOOGE", "GLOBALIST", "ILLUMINATUS" and the like.

edit: Good attention-getter, and takes the punch out of the inevitable accusation.

 

[Metullus]

I had not seen either he picture or the video of the woman waving before reading this thread.

Delphi said it all: HATE. I am revolted by what I read at LC - I cannot fathom how people can be so cruel and hateful.

And just plain stupid.

 

[CptColumbo]

Let's keep this thread on subject: what can we do to stop this movement? We're angry. Let's find some way to use that emotion productively.

The one person is challenging someone to come on his radio show to debate the issue. However, I would want to listen to the show prior to agreeing to anything. In the past when I have listened to shows about CTs with a guest who disagrees with the subject, the guest is interrupted and shouted at if they try to reach a point, or asked to leave if they get too close to debunking the CT. I would ask for formal debating rules with an independent moderator, and the raw audio and video footage of the show. Plus I would not debate myself, because I'm sure there are better qualified people (structural engineers, physicists, demolition experts, pilots) than me (w/ degree in theatre arts).

 

[Bronze Dog]

I'm thinking t-shirts that say "SHILL", "GOVERNMENT STOOGE", "GLOBALIST", "ILLUMINATUS" and the like.

edit: Good attention-getter, and takes the punch out of the inevitable accusation.

They'd make an honest person out of geni.

 

[CptColumbo]

And a neutral location, with no spectators beyond an additional representative.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Voltaire, I believe.

No, it was a biographer of Voltaire, Evelyn Beatrice Hall.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Evelyn_Beatrice_Hall

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
These words were first used by Hall, writing under the pseudonym of Stephen G. Tallentyre in The Friends of Voltaire (1906), as a paraphrase of Voltaire's attitudes, based on statements in Essay on Tolerance where he asserts: "Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privelege to do so too", but its ultimate origin may lie in a letter to M. le Riche (February 6, 1770): "Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write."

 

[Gravy]

Hi, Gravy. BTW, I've enjoyed several of your recent, thoroughly-researches posts.

A question: do the CTers actually do something about their beliefs ? I mean, they don't just sit in front of their computers and whine all day, shielded by their anonymity, do they ?

Do they ?

They do! (I have harsher words for what they're doing while diddling their mice to 9/11 photos and videos "Now run it back and forth, back and forth, slowly," but we'll keep it clean for now.)

What they're not doing is any kind of "investigation." They don't seem to have any idea what a real investigator does. That bothers me a lot, because they spend endless hours criticizing official investigations. I refer to the LC forum as a CT workshop. The goal is not to find answers, but to perpetuate the conspiracy. Example: the admins there consider "no planes" to be a theory worth pursuing. If they had any interest in the truth, they wouldn't make belief in their theory a requirement to post there. I've never seen a group of people so divorced from reality.