Liberal Fallacies

[Travis]

Generally speaking in international law, invading another country without explicit UN approval is illegal unless that country has attacked you first. If Saddam had been involved in 9-11 I'd say it qualifies as a legitimate reason to attack Iraq.

This principle extends even to overthrowing a dictator because no individual country gets to say who is a dictator and who isn't.

In practical terms this doesn't limit any of the permanent members of the US security counsel because they get a veto over any declaration an invasion is illegal.


An actively in progress genocide would be not only a valid reason but would demand action. this is why many countries, including the US, were reluctant to acknowledge Rwanda as a genocide until after the fact. Doing so would have required them to send troops to help stop the genocide. If the US had attacked while Saddam was actively slaughtering Kurds it would have met this test IMO

Are you sure about this? I was in college when the whole Iraq War thing went down and I remember a lot on the Left who seemed to think even stopping active genocide was not a reason to invade another country. The subgroup I'm talking about believed you waged war to defend against invasion and for nothing else.

 

[elbe]

Are you sure about this? I was in college when the whole Iraq War thing went down and I remember a lot on the Left who seemed to think even stopping active genocide was not a reason to invade another country. The subgroup I'm talking about believed you waged war to defend against invasion and for nothing else.

I seem to recall some groups on the right (libertarians) who held similar positions.

[Sarcasm]What's that? Not every issue is easily divided between left and right and most people are full of nuance?[/Sarcasm]

 

[Upchurch]

Really? When were we at peace with Iraq from the "first gulf war" to the "second". When we were patrolling the no-fly zones we were in a state of war if our jets were being shot at and our jets were being shot at almost daily.

You continently stopped reading too soon. Did World War II start in 1914, by your reakoning? If not, why not?

 

[Upchurch]

Would you call Charlese Theron an African American?

Yes.

I noticed you do not read much before responding. If you had, you would see that I explain my point further in the the text. But don't let logic stop you from living in your own world.

Er... No, you didn't. You made exactly one post in this thread before I responded and that contained exactly one bullet point on Obama's being African-American, which I quoted in full.

You explained your point further after I responded, but, as my TARDIS is in the shop, it isn't really fair to criticize me for not taking into account things you hadn't said yet. Even so, you're still wrong.

ISo your first two comments were trash. Did it get any better? I saw something like "wut? Who is claiming that?" about something I have heard from other Liberals. What do you expect? Want names?

Evidence would be nice, but I don't expect reality to show up in you posts. You even have trouble with the chronological order of events in which you participate.

It's sufficient to say that, once again, when it comes to politics, anything you believe to be true and obvious simply isn't. I've been saying it for years and you keep proving me correct.

 

[Upchurch]

Just to be clear:

I think you are lost. It was the Republicans that freed the slaves. It was the Democrats who fought it. Little has changed. Go to the deep south and find out what political leanings the good ol' boys have today.

I wonder if Bill has ever heard of The Southern Strategy.

RandFan was responding to you, Bill.

When the slaves were freed, Republicans were the liberals and Democrats were the conservatives. In the mid-twentieth century, the Republicans exploited southern conservative racism to pull in traditionally Democratic states to their side, essentially reversing the political polarity of the two parties. The GOP may be "The Party of Lincoln" but today, it's pretty much in name only.

 

[Puppycow]

Well, since this is now in it's proper board:

Bill is correct. This is a "fallacy", by which I assume he means "untrue". The Iraq War started 8 years, 8 months, and 3 weeks ago. (Thank you for the trivia, Wikipedia) Of course, there were hostilities before that that lead up to the Iraq War, but by that logic, one could argue that World War II started in 1914, or even earlier.

Actually, no it started 10 years ago*. 8 years, 8 months, and 3 weeks is how long it lasted.

*Roughly. March 20, 2003 is given as the date it started.

 

[Upchurch]

Actually, no it started 10 years ago*. 8 years, 8 months, and 3 weeks is how long it lasted.

*Roughly. March 20, 2003 is given as the date it started.

Well, dammit. My main point still stands.

 

[Belz...]

Africa is not a country.

Oh, okay. You're being willfully obtuse, then. I don't see any reason to discuss this with you. You know full well what the term means.

 

[quadraginta]

I think you are lost. It was the Republicans that freed the slaves. It was the Democrats who fought it. Little has changed. Go to the deep south and find out what political leanings the good ol' boys have today.

<snip>

Been a while since you've been to the South, eh?
Like half a century or so?

'Cause that's about how long ago it was that a long list of "good ol' boy" politicians like Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond bailed out of a Democratic Party that was guilty of supporting things like civil rights and integration, joined the Republicans and started their decades long crusades against tolerance.

They didn't make the switch because they were hungry for votes from Democrats.

 

[Nogbad]

To be fair we could all sit and type a mad list of complete bollox we think political opponents believe

Conservatives

1. Still think it is OK to eat babies

I could obviously write a lot more but what is the point?

 

[jimbob]

I wonder if Bill has ever heard of The Southern Strategy.

Just to be clear:




RandFan was responding to you, Bill.

When the slaves were freed, Republicans were the liberals and Democrats were the conservatives. In the mid-twentieth century, the Republicans exploited southern conservative racism to pull in traditionally Democratic states to their side, essentially reversing the political polarity of the two parties. The GOP may be "The Party of Lincoln" but today, it's pretty much in name only.

And this is well known in the UK.

 

[Cleon]

I think you are lost. It was the Republicans that freed the slaves. It was the Democrats who fought it. Little has changed. Go to the deep south and find out what political leanings the good ol' boys have today.

What the...? The Southern States aren't called "red states" because they've all gone Communist, y'know.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

 

[Puppycow]

Edited by LashL: 

Removed quote of moderated content.

Damn! Let's see if the unbiased administrators and moderators do not ban you for life.

So much for kind face of Liberalism.

"Liberal Fallacies" have nothing to do with politics.

 

[Ausmerican]

E=mc² is liberal claptrap.

Wow, just wow.

 

[squealpiggy]

Liberals care more about animals than people.
Liberals recruit your children into the homosexual lifestyle.
Liberals have a raging hard-on for sharia law.
Liberals hate white America.
Liberals hate white Jesus!
Liberal homonazi facists are murdering everyone's babies.
Liberals are always gushing squealing whining sanctimonious voices how illegal brown people deserve free hair gel and heroin.
Liberals do give a **** what NAMBLA thinks.
E=mc² is liberal claptrap.
Liberals took mah jeerb! Ther takin our jarbs!
Liberals are barely sentient pseudomageloMANIACAL potheaded morons.
Liberals actually have a fully functional reticulated jaw which they use for snatching babies out of Christian wombs.
Liberals cannot extinguish the awesome air of wrongness around their very being.
Liberal intellectuals creat_ed cancer to doöm humanity.
Liberal men weasel-faced corrupticrats built the Berlin Ħall.
If liberals had even the minutest fragment of undersŀanding how far man is lo͠st, they would collapse into jibbering stʯpor dribbling fle|<s of wh└ite cruƧtyed[/striked] flecks from the _left and ^right sid·es of their faͨcel̘̝̙̃ͤ͂̾̆ce openings. TIME is a [tetri] quartilatr 4-sided ►cube. <404 REQUEST FAILED> * Everything is CUBES[/B}. libaral Ƈubes socialist ty·ʁnny. tangle·d up and WWAN never spoken. eVERYʭthing ˀ. ☼ lunar writhing ☼ ♫^♪vernal▫sorrow_{^{A VⱷICe}} ʘ҈h? D᷁o you heaix̃r a͠ngeels?

the cake is a lie
the cake is a lie
the cake is a lie

 

[Dancing David]

Dessi, the things you write, probably no one really believes. That is the difference between what you wrote and what I wrote. People have actually defended their believes in some of the items in my list and have insisted that they are true.

So this is a category error, because you heard or read one person make a statement that then make their position 'Liberal' as though they spoke for all people a category labelled as 'Liberal'?

You still provide no evidence that these people are "Liberal' or that they represent 'Liberal' as a category of people.

 

[Dancing David]

At the DNC, they were selling buttons that said "once you vote black, you never go back" and they seemed to think it was cute, and no one objected to it.

Evidence and citiation?

I know a half dozen couples who are very conservative and would be thought of as "interracial".

My liberal cousins, once they have a glass of wine and have let their guard down will say a joke that might be thought of as racially incensitive.

At my aunt's 80th birthdday party, distant liberal cousins seemed proud of the fact that they voted for Obama just because he has black skin and did not think for a moment that that was racist. But it is.

Actually, it is not a religious thing either. I have a very die-hard athiest friend who I spoke with for hours last night on the phone. He is very right-wing. Like me, he thinks Liberalism is a lot like just another faith.

Anecdotal evidence, so who made your distant cousin the spokesperson for Liberals? You?

Of course people as individuals can be in error and you seem to have some date points there, so how does that speak to the category of Liberal?

 

[varwoche]

Africa is not a country. There are Italian Americans, Greek Americans, German Americans. Noone defines themselves from an entire continent. Would you call Charlese Theron an African American? She is from Africa, she calls America her home. I guess she is African American. Hell, she is even MORE African American than Obama.

Straight from the Hymie-the-Robot playbook.

 

[Dancing David]

What are you talking about? Be specific.

they are typical among liberals to me. You demand I take a survey? Pay me for my time.

Ah so the source of your category error is you own personal bias and opinion.

Not any actual data, at least you admitted to have no evidence of anything other than your personal opinion.

That is refreshing.

 

[KoihimeNakamura]

Nor has Bill heard of Dixiecrats..