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Split Thread Legality of Prostitution

Except that everyone in this discussion is a human being, so yeah it applies to everyone here universally. Unless you're implying you're not human... You are human right?

Yes, I am. Are you trying to be insulting?

In addition, are you constitutionally incapable of knowing that other people are different to you and have different attitudes about all sorts of different things than you do?

Or do you just mistakenly believe that sex is, in some way, special? I don't.

ETA - is one only allowed to indulge in dangerous activities only with a special friend whom one loves very, very much?
 
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Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one in this particular debate that has had taken classes in sex education or even had the birds and the bees talk and I'm frankly surprised at the number of people making such ridiculous false analogies.

Sex is fundamentally different from any and all other transactions you can care to name. It is a personal interpersonal action that involves swapping bodily fluids with each other in a way that is frighteningly easy to injure each other. That any one here can make these stupid comparisons with a straight face makes me sincerely hope that they are not responsible for teaching sex education.

No, why?

I disagree, of course, but I will give you that you are the one that, when this issue is brought up, pretends that your personal sense of distaste is a valid basis for law.
 
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one in this particular debate that has had taken classes in sex education or even had the birds and the bees talk and I'm frankly surprised at the number of people making such ridiculous false analogies.

Translation: "Everyone disagrees with me. Therefore they must all be wrong."

Sex is fundamentally different from any and all other transactions you can care to name. It is a personal interpersonal action that involves swapping bodily fluids with each other in a way that is frighteningly easy to injure each other.

How does that make it fundamentally different ? You can get hurt really easily by going to the dentist.


Then why put restrictions on those where money is involved ?
 
*Sits Cavemonster down, picture book in hand.*

You see, when a man and a woman, a man and a man, or a woman and a woman like each other in a special way they touch each other in a special way that makes each other feel really good. It is both really wonderful and incredibly dangerous and should only be done with someone you really like and can trust or you could get hurt, or sick, or killed.

Which is why purchasing or selling this special moment to anyone, especially to someone you do not know, so monumentally stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk&feature=kp
 
I don't put prostitution in the same category as murder, but I do put it in the same category as chattel slavery. Shall we remove the ban on that, as well?
picture.php


Your rights end where public safety and health begins.
Indeed, so decriminalise prostitution and regulate it.
 
Sex is fundamentally different from any and all other transactions you can care to name. It is a personal interpersonal action that involves swapping bodily fluids with each other in a way that is frighteningly easy to injure each other. That any one here can make these stupid comparisons with a straight face makes me sincerely hope that they are not responsible for teaching sex education.

I think that is called boxing. Here are some risk mitigation strategies: avoid Mike Tyson, keep your hands up, always use a mouth guard, and spit in the bucket. Sex ed is nice too, but is more useful in MMA.
 
I was asked for more recent examples of issues and I gave them.

...I asked for figures. You gave me stories. I asked for conviction rates. You gave me anecdotes.

I AM curious about the glaring lack of real data 10 years on.

What sort of real data are you looking for?

How about some of YOU give us some data that does not read like a travel brochure for Sex Tourism?

What sort of real data are you looking for? Considering the arguments I've laid out in this thread: what is it that you think I have to prove?

I can tell from reading the NZ material that claims to authority are commonly accepted as sources of knowledge. I am not so accepting of claims to authority.

Cite? Which NZ material are you talking about? Which claims of authority? I'm sorry, I'm not going to accept your claim of authority that NZ material commonly accept claims of authority.

I persist in the 'property' thing because it is a glaring inconsistency and also a source of trouble with the NZ law.

There isn't a glaring inconsistency. There isn't even an inconsistency.

If nobody cares - I guess you are right then, have a nice day.
Glad you've finally seen the light.
Curious, do your views also apply to illegal drugs? Why are there any? It would be consistent to legalize everything.

Feel free to start a new thread with your views on drugs. This thread has already been split off from the other one, I have no desire to drag things off topic yet again.
 
Outlawing prostitution doesn't eliminate prostitution, obviously. So, even if you can prove that prostitution is harmful, you still need to prove that legal prostitution is more harmful than illegal prostitution in order to justify the position that it ought to be illegal.
 
...

Sex is fundamentally different from any and all other transactions you can care to name. It is a personal interpersonal action that involves swapping bodily fluids with each other in a way that is frighteningly easy to injure each other. That any one here can make these stupid comparisons with a straight face makes me sincerely hope that they are not responsible for teaching sex education.

...

Highlighting mine.

I've had lots and lots and lots of sex where no bodily fluids were exchanged.

Plenty of lube everywhere though!
 
There is an established link between the two. I'll get more into that after I get off of work, though.

...nah there isn't. If there was I'm absolutely sure considering your post rate in this thread you would have been able to show this "established link." I'm not really interested in reading some pseudo scientific rambling report that I'm sure you are going to link to.

How about an interest in public safety and health?

I indeed have an interest in public safety and health!!!

These are still good things, last I checked,

Indeed they are!

and prostitution puts that at risk.

Surely you meant unsafe sex?


In a manner of speaking we already have legalized prostitution in the form of pornography (which I'm also against) and there is already an issue of health of safety, especially for the actors(?). And we're talking about a line of work that exposes these people to paid sex with a limited amount of people that they know and work with.

Do you also oppose nightclubs? And one night stands? And toga parties? Do you oppose Game of Thrones and Californication? Do you oppose Spring Break? Do you oppose kissing on stage? Which other common place things are you opposed to?

The problem is much worse because you're talking about prostitution, exposure to paid sex with complete strangers... Is the John infected with AIDS? Are they sane? Are they criminal? And on, and on, and on.

And every Saturday night when the inevitable hook ups happen at the end of a night out partying the same questions could be asked. Legalised prostitution ensures rules are put in place to try to make the process as safe as possible.

Have a look at the OSH Guidelines for the sex industry:

http://www.business.govt.nz/worksaf...and-safety-in-the-new-zealand/sexindustry.pdf

Don't you wish they handed that document out at every university?

What about laws that prostitution conflicts with, such as employment laws? What's to prevent employers from adding clauses in their employment contracts that require employees be willing to submit to sexual advances?

Legalised prostitution works in harmony with employment laws. Thats the point. Adding clauses to employment contracts that require employees be willing to submit to sexual advances is illegal here in NZ. Its illegal in standard practice: and the Prostitution Law Reforms also make it illegal to compel someone to submit to sexual advances. So don't worry, your concerns are all taken care of!

What about civil rights, which legalized prostitution is notorious for trampling on?

Legalised prostitution is not notorious for trampling on civil rights. The process of legalising prostitution however does grant prostitutes the right to earn a living without fear of being arrested.

Anyone who thinks that this is only about some religious/moral outrage are wrong, anyone who thinks prostitution is a victimless crime are even wronger.

Strawman.
 

Because a lot of what you're objecting to would apply to the situation if there was no money involved.
I just thought I'd check to see whether you felt that the financial aspect changed everything or not.
 
The established link is because it is illegal. The sex slave trade exists because it is illegal in so many places.

It reminds me so much of the laws against marijuana and how they are supported. "The money funds terrorists, the money funds arms dealers and killers."

If it was legalized it would fund farmers!
 
Because there are demonstrable physical and mental health dangers associated with having sex with strangers for money.

I'd like to see some evidence for that. However, that may be true for some people, but it is not true for everyone. I know people who have worked in the sex industry, then went on with their lives. No trauma, no PTSD.

Some people can view having sex as simply a transaction but others have a greater emotional investment.

And the people with greater emotional involvement should not work as prostitutes. But that doesn't mean people who can separate sex from emotion shouldn't work as legal prostitutes.

Personally as a married man who is faithful to his wife I could not take paid sex work (assuming that there is a niche out there I would fit into) without having terrible issues of guilt.

Which is fine, for you. You are not every person in the world. Some people are in open marriages. Some people are in poly relationships.

I'm not sure that there is an equivalence between sex work and other jobs. A lot of this is due to the stigma of sex work but disclosing that you are a past or current sex worker will reduce your future work opportunities far more than, say, revealing that you are currently or have in the past cleansed the toilets in a fast food restaurant

This is true, though I suspect that is based on the stigma of the sex industry more than anything.

and being a past or current sex worker will also reduce the pool of future life partners.

This is also true. Then again, if someone couldn't love you, flaws and all, would you really want to spend your life with them?

How about an interest in public safety and health? These are still good things, last I checked, and prostitution puts that at risk.

Illegal prostitution puts them at risk. We are discussing legalizing, which would likely bring regulation. Things like mandatory condom use, STD testing of prostitutes, etc.

At the same time, random hook-ups on CraigsList bring the same dangers to public health. But no one is trying to make that illegal.

In a manner of speaking we already have legalized prostitution in the form of pornography (which I'm also against) and there is already an issue of health of safety, especially for the actors(?).

A good analogy, since the porn industry does test their actors for STD's.

The problem is much worse because you're talking about prostitution, exposure to paid sex with complete strangers... Is the John infected with AIDS? Are they sane? Are they criminal? And on, and on, and on.

See my above comment about Craig's List hook-ups.

What about laws that prostitution conflicts with, such as employment laws? What's to prevent employers from adding clauses in their employment contracts that require employees be willing to submit to sexual advances?

There is a difference between forced prostitution and willing prostitution. The clause you mentioned would be forced, but that is not what we are talking about here. The topic of the thread is about legalizing prostitution for those who choose to work in that field. No one here is advocating everyone take a turn, working on their back.

What about civil rights, which legalized prostitution is notorious for trampling on?

What civil rights?

Anyone who thinks that this is only about some religious/moral outrage are wrong, anyone who thinks prostitution is a victimless crime are even wronger.

Except it can be a victimless crime - especially if the person doing the work is doing it willingly.

And that is several orders of magnitude different from having sex with complete strangers, which is just stupid.

And yet it happens every weekend, all around the world. (Random hook-ups, I mean...)

It creates a situation that dissuades (mostly) females from entering the work environment, because at any time they could be called on to perform sexual favors for their employer or immediate supervisor and their only legal recourse would be comply or quit.

Again, you are confusing legal, willing prostitution and forced prostitution. No one here is advocating for forced prostitution.

Prostitution negatively impacts minorities (women, the lower class, and non-whites) the most and encourages them to not seek a more complete education or a better life in exchange for short-term gains.

I'll pass that on to a white, female doctor I know who worked as a prostitute when she lost her job several years ago. And there's the white, female lawyer at a BigLaw firm in California who was working nights as a call girl to pay her student loans.

Alcohol, drunk responsibly and in moderation, is not only safe but actually healthy.

Sex, when done safely, is also healthy. Good endorphins. Makes you feel good.

So being used and abused as a nameless sex object doesn't make prostitutes victims?

Not if (s)he is doing it willingly and know what she's getting in to.

So what you're saying is that you consider paying a man that you are on a first name basis with to use his knowledge and training that he went to school and earned to cut your hair cut is the same as getting a blow job from some prostitute you don't even know the real name of half your age who likely dropped out of high school?

You are making a big assumption. As I said, I know a doctor who worked as a prostitute. See also, the lawyer I mentioned above.

Not all prostitutes are poor, drug-addled, and poorly educated.

You see, when a man and a woman, a man and a man, or a woman and a woman like each other in a special way they touch each other in a special way that makes each other feel really good. It is both really wonderful and incredibly dangerous and should only be done with someone you really like and can trust or you could get hurt, or sick, or killed.

Or sometimes people just want to get laid. So they go to a bar, or go on Craig's List (or any number of other sites) and find someone else who wants to get laid.

Sex does not have to be tied to emotion. Maybe for you, it is. But everyone is not you. Some people can (and do) have random, fun sex, no strings attached.
 
I'm finding it difficult to find an issue with sex as a transaction as opposed to sex as a random hookup from a danger or public health perspective.

Random hookups have all kinds of potential for danger -at least as much as any encounter with a prostitute.

Further, being a sugar daddy isn't illegal...I fail to see the difference between that and prostitution.
 
I'm finding it difficult to find an issue with sex as a transaction as opposed to sex as a random hookup from a danger or public health perspective.

Random hookups have all kinds of potential for danger -at least as much as any encounter with a prostitute.

Further, being a sugar daddy isn't illegal...I fail to see the difference between that and prostitution.

In China they are cracking down on mistresses that sugar daddies support as prostitution.
 
It reminds me so much of the laws against marijuana and how they are supported. "The money funds terrorists, the money funds arms dealers and killers."

If it was legalized it would fund farmers!
.
Hemp was raised to support the war effort for WWII.
 

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