Split Thread Legality of Prostitution

[Cavemonster]

So what you're saying is that you consider paying a man that you are on a first name basis with to use his knowledge and training that he went to school and earned to cut your hair cut is the same as getting a blow job from some prostitute you don't even know the real name of half your age who likely dropped out of high school?

I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing how the two are in any way equivalent.

So service industry jobs become "bad" when there is less training and education involved and when I don't know their name?

So we should outlaw supermarket bagging?

Or would prostitution become acceptable if they were forced to disclose their real names and take advanced training in fellatio?

I don't understand the distinction you're trying to make here.

 

[Mudcat]

Or would prostitution become acceptable if they were forced to disclose their real names and take advanced training in fellatio?

Perhaps we can agree that me bringing up their individual education and training didn't really do much to further that particular argument?

Perhaps we could also agree that the services of having your hair cut is just a teensy bit different from having sex?

 

[Cavemonster]

Perhaps we can agree that me bringing up their individual education and training didn't really do much to further that particular argument?

Perhaps we could also agree that the services of having your hair cut is just a teensy bit different from having sex?

I agree to both.

But cutting hair is also different from performing brain surgery, or playing piano in a bar or acting in a blockbuster movie.

What you need to make an argument for is that the difference is of a specific sort that we have a reason to outlaw. Articulate what that difference is and why it is relevant.

 

[Mudcat]

What you need to make an argument for is that the difference is of a specific sort that we have a reason to outlaw. Articulate what that difference is and why it is relevant.

*Sits Cavemonster down, picture book in hand.*

You see, when a man and a woman, a man and a man, or a woman and a woman like each other in a special way they touch each other in a special way that makes each other feel really good. It is both really wonderful and incredibly dangerous and should only be done with someone you really like and can trust or you could get hurt, or sick, or killed.

Which is why purchasing or selling this special moment to anyone, especially to someone you do not know, so monumentally stupid.

 

[Slowvehicle]

*Sits Cavemonster down, picture book in hand.*

You see, when a man and a woman, a man and a man, or a woman and a woman like each other in a special way they touch each other in a special way that makes each other feel really good. It is both really wonderful and incredibly dangerous and should only be done with someone you really like and can trust or you could get hurt, or sick, or killed.

Which is why purchasing or selling this special moment to anyone so monumentally stupid.

...in your, personal, opinion, in accordance with your personal standards.

You have yet to make a non-paternalistic argument for legally prohibiting licensed, regulated, consensual sex-for-hire.

 

[Mudcat]

...in your, personal, opinion, in accordance with your personal standards.

Do you find anything wrong with that opinion or the standards? At least I'm more concerned with the health, safety, and well-being of all involved rather than presenting outrage because of any ideological sensibilities.

You have yet to make a non-paternalistic argument for legally prohibiting licensed, regulated, consensual sex-for-hire.

Perhaps you missed the part where I pointed out that prostitution, legalized or not, puts minorities at disadvantage?

 

[BenBurch]

Puts minorities at a disadvantage!?

 

[Cavemonster]

*Sits Cavemonster down, picture book in hand.*

You see, when a man and a woman, a man and a man, or a woman and a woman like each other in a special way they touch each other in a special way that makes each other feel really good. It is both really wonderful and incredibly dangerous and should only be done with someone you really like and can trust or you could get hurt, or sick, or killed.

Which is why purchasing or selling this special moment to anyone, especially to someone you do not know, so monumentally stupid.

*Sits Mudcat down, picture book in hand*

Bollocks.

Sex contains danger, but so do a large number of other professions. We don't outlaw convenience stores even though clerks get shot a lot.

We don't outlaw coal mining, or movie stuntmen.

And the dangers of sex can be mitigated, just like the risks in any other profession.

Driving the industry into the shadows exponentially increases these risks and makes regulation impossible.

If the problem is that sex is supposed to be special and about trust then you have equal justification for outlawing casual sex.

Which is insane.

So, good, you've now added two more qualities to the list, the specialness of sex and the danger of sex. Both fail to make a compelling case.

 

[Belz...]

Imbibing in alcohol isn't the same as engaging in prostitution.

Both are acts that can be dangerous to public safety.

Alcohol, drunk responsibly and in moderation, is not only safe but actually healthy.

So is sex.

Having sex with complete strangers, even without money involved? Even you agreed that it is unwise.

Drinking from a bottle of alcohol you find on the street without knowing where it's been is also unwise, for example.

Yes, it is.

No, it's not. The two have different definitions. What is it with people and conflating things ?

all pornography seems to do is line the pockets of some very sleazy excuses of human beings.

You're ignoring half of the equation while generalizing about the other half. First off, your characterisation of people in the porn business is ignorant and insulting. Second, you're forgetting that consumers actually get a product out of it, so pornography doesn't only make people money; it provides a service.

I beg to disagree.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe in imposing my preferences on other people. That goes against every principle that I hold dear.

Lack of any other reasonable options.

Do you have any evidence for this ?

So being used and abused as a nameless sex object doesn't make prostitutes victims?

You are begging the question. You need to demonstrate that prostitution, per se, is use and abuse. If I paid a prostitute for sex, I wouldn't be abusing her, and I'm sure most men wouldn't, either.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Do you find anything wrong with that opinion or the standards? At least I'm more concerned with the health, safety, and well-being of all involved rather than presenting outrage because of any ideological sensibilities.

Outrage? Snerk.

The point about your opinion, or your standards, is not that they are "wrong", nor did I say, nor imply, such.

The problem, as I clearly and calmly pointed out, is your paternalism of pretending that your personal standards somehow define, or determine, the common weal.

You are, of course, welcome to your private standards, and they should, of course, inform and guide your behaviour.

I say again, your personal sense of distaste is not a valid basis for legal prohibition of the acts of others,

Perhaps you missed the part where I pointed out that prostitution, legalized or not, puts minorities at disadvantage?

I certainly missed the point where you provided evidence to support your assertion that licensed, regulated, consensual sex-for-hire "puts minorities at disadvantage"...I would be fascinated to read, and explore, the sources that support your claim. It seems that it could, as easily, be said that the fast-food industry puts "minorities at disadvantage".

 

[Belz...]

*Sits Cavemonster down, picture book in hand.*

You see, when a man and a woman, a man and a man, or a woman and a woman like each other in a special way they touch each other in a special way that makes each other feel really good. It is both really wonderful and incredibly dangerous and should only be done with someone you really like and can trust or you could get hurt, or sick, or killed.

Which is why purchasing or selling this special moment to anyone, especially to someone you do not know, so monumentally stupid.

That was a bad move, Mudcat. Now it's just obvious that your opposition to professional sex trades is purely emotional.

 

[kerikiwi]

I don't put prostitution in the same category as murder, but I do put it in the same category as chattel slavery. Shall we remove the ban on that, as well?

How can you put prostitution in the same category as slavery?
Is it just that the service being provided is sexual?
I had a couple of men building a fence on my property. Would you put that in the same category as slavery? If not, why not?

 

[kerikiwi]

So what you're saying is that you consider paying a man that you are on a first name basis with to use his knowledge and training that he went to school and earned to cut your hair cut is the same as getting a blow job from some prostitute you don't even know the real name of half your age who likely dropped out of high school?

I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing how the two are in any way equivalent.

You don't see how they are equivalent because you deliberately made them not equivalent in order to say you could not see them as equivalent.
Truly mendacious.
Paying someone with whom I am not on a first name basis, and whose name I do not even know, and who is half my age, to cut my hair is certainly not equivalent to having sex for money with a woman my own age whose real name I do know and who has a higher level of formal education than I do.

 

[Dissolution]

Just out of interest Mudcat, would you put any kind of restrictions on non-transactional casual sex?

 

[kerikiwi]

Perhaps we could also agree that the services of having your hair cut is just a teensy bit different from having sex?

Agreed. It's also different from having a filling done. So what?

 

[kerikiwi]

*Sits Cavemonster down, picture book in hand.*

You see, when a man and a woman, a man and a man, or a woman and a woman like each other in a special way they touch each other in a special way that makes each other feel really good. It is both really wonderful and incredibly dangerous and should only be done with someone you really like and can trust or you could get hurt, or sick, or killed.

Which is why purchasing or selling this special moment to anyone, especially to someone you do not know, so monumentally stupid.

So you want to make all sexual activity illegal which does not fit your caricature?
Or do you think giving this special moment away for free is okay, but doing it for money is really, really bad?

 

[3point14]

I don't put prostitution in the same category as murder, but I do put it in the same category as chattel slavery.

Why?

 

[3point14]

You see, when a man and a woman, a man and a man, or a woman and a woman like each other in a special way they touch each other in a special way that makes each other feel really good. It is both really wonderful and incredibly dangerous and should only be done with someone you really like and can trust or you could get hurt, or sick, or killed.

This might apply to you, what makes you think it applies to everyone else universally?

Just for the record, it doesn't. Not everyone is the same as you, accept that.

 

[Mudcat]

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one in this particular debate that has had taken classes in sex education or even had the birds and the bees talk and I'm frankly surprised at the number of people making such ridiculous false analogies.

Sex is fundamentally different from any and all other transactions you can care to name. It is a personal interpersonal action that involves swapping bodily fluids with each other in a way that is frighteningly easy to injure each other. That any one here can make these stupid comparisons with a straight face makes me sincerely hope that they are not responsible for teaching sex education.

Just out of interest Mudcat, would you put any kind of restrictions on non-transactional casual sex?

No, why?

 

[Mudcat]

Not everyone is the same as you, accept that.

Except that everyone in this discussion is a human being, so yeah it applies to everyone here universally. Unless you're implying you're not human... You are human right?