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KSM beheaded Pearl: A challenge for Truthers

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Instead of gamboling around the barracks with your chums, think about being in StoneAgeistan, at a facility where their concern about your survival is zip, and they are put the question to you, and you don't know the answer.
They have no reason to maintain your life, and turning you into carbon residue to be disposed at the local landfill doesn't bother them.
And... you don't the answer!
Wanna bet you'll come up with one?
Or 183, on request?

Yet he did indeed survive and lived to tell his tale. Pity the same can't be said for Danial Pearl!

Have you seen the released video today of the Afghani couple who where stoned to death 6 months ago.........in StoneAgeistan?

The woman endured several minutes as a rampaging mob of cave dwellers hurled rocks at her. She survived..........only to be shot 3 times. Her boyfriend then got the same treatment! What did they do to deserve this? They fell in love and ran away together. Yet because one of them was married the Taliban ordered there deaths by stoning.

Those who can have 7 wives, cut ya head off and dream of 40 virgins sure do the strangest of things to their fellow countrymen/women. Some countries even use lethal injections.

Time to come down from that self rightious ivory tower to planet earth.
 
We... the posters here on JREF... should be aware of the atrocities in StoneAgeistan, and for most part are, and delighted our body of law prevents those actions.
It's almost alarming the number of posters who willy-nilly have no qualms (or anything else, like sense of moral/ethical behavior) in abandoning our ivory tower status and revert to the barbarities in StoneAgeistan out of a lust for vengeance for -alleged- improprieties.
The thread subject is "credited" with the intricately planned and well executed attack on 9/11, AND as the "master mind" behind the Shoe Bomber, which is almost from an alternative universe in terms of planning and execution.
And there's all those "crimes" confessed to, which have no existence in reality, his "confession" under duress providing sufficient information about these unreported other examples.
It's usually considered difficult to prove a negative.
Proving some attack didn't occur due to the criminal behavior of the CIA and their lackeys winkling out these nefarious plots hasn't been accomplished yet.
 
It plays a fart of a role.
Have you seen the image of the alleged vein anywhere? No.
The students had a pretty good idea. They sent the picture to the CIA and all they got was the answer that it matches perfectly. In other words, the same guys who waterboarded KSM to get the confessions about killing the pope and Elvis repied that they now have a (controversial at least) forensic evidence for the TRUTH of their extorted confessions.
What would you expect? That the CIA tells the students "Oh, it seems KSM told us not the very truth after 183 waterboardings"???

I think it plays a role.
You posted pics to compare, I pointed out that the first pic didn't look like the others cause we know that it's not the same person. Then you get all woo-ee on us. Admit you're wrong or at least went down the wrong path. Don't make up insane stories. This reaction is an excellent example of truther logic.

And... he admitted beheading Daniel Pearl with his "blessed right hand". [pg 18, #2] Read the transcript. He makes a lengthy statement at the end and mentions Daniel again [pg 20].
 
In other words, the same guys who waterboarded KSM to get the confessions about killing the pope and Elvis

KSM confessing to crimes he could not have committed is a common truther fantasy which I think started with Fetzer. Can you cite any examples of him doing so?

That the CIA tells the students "Oh, it seems KSM told us not the very truth after 183 waterboardings"???

KSM claimed a much lower number as quoted by the Red Cross: “
In other words, the same guys who waterboarded KSM to get the confessions about killing the pope and Elvis

KSM confessing to crimes he could not have committed is a common truther fantasy which I think started with Fetzer. Can you cite any examples of him doing so?

That the CIA tells the students "Oh, it seems KSM told us not the very truth after 183 waterboardings"???

KSM claimed a much lower number as quoted by the Red Cross: “I was subjected to 'water-boarding' on five occasions, all of which occurred during that first month.”

http://www.nybooks.com/media/doc/2010/04/22/icrc-report.pdf

Though I agree that torture taints confessions KSM bragged about his role planning 9/11 to Al-Jazeera before he was arrested
 
We are talking about guy that defintely knew stuff. If it took pouring water on his face to get it so what. I would personally do it . And not lose any sleep at all .

So we have
the CIA - ISI connection
the ISI - Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh connection
the Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh - MI6 connection
the ISI - Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh - Mohammed Atta connection
the Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh - KSM connection
the KSM - ISI connection

The second prime suspect - Khalid Shaik Mohammed used regularly ISI apartments for his activities and briefing. He trusted ISI when, under USA heavy pressure, Khalid Shaik Mohammed was lured to one of ISI’s safe house, where he was arrested.
http://www.globaljihad.net/view_page.asp?id=416

What a coup! They catched their own man.

Furthermore we have the coincidence that the ISI chief Lt' Gen' Mahmud Ahmad was in Washington on 9/11 to meet CIA Operation 40 agent Porter Goss and the flightschool Senator Bob Graham and Jon Kyl for breakfast while the airplanes struck the towers. Of course, they talked about UBL (not about UBL's actual activities).

Bob Graham - Select Committee on Intelligence
Jon Kyl - Select Committee on Intelligence
Porter Goss - the next CIA chief / ex Oparation 40 agent

Yet, we have a cosy intelligence relationship among all parties.

No need to say that Jon Kyl fought against Obamas release of "formerly classified documents regarding interrogation techniques".
http://www.nationalledger.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=36&num=25804

No need to say that Bob Graham coquetted with statements like "If by conspiracy you mean, more than one person involved, yes, there was more than one person and there was some … collaboration of efforts among agencies and the administration to keep information out of the public’s hands."

The Pearl case:
Daniel Pearl poked his nose into the connections of Richard Reid. I personally believe that his investigation played no role at all. Nevertheless, I believe he was very carefully selected as "american" "wallstreet journalist" and "jew".
It's some kind of bogeyman, some kind of perfect fit for the alleged goals of Al Qaeda. ...an organisation that according to the leader do not exist.

Who knew that Pearl was a jew + wallstreet journal + american?
The cosy intelligence. ...only the cosy intelligence!

Photos of Pearl bound in chains are included in the first e-mailed ransom note that suggests he was a bargaining chip for the release of Al Qaeda prisoners. But, the same day a Pakistan newspaper reports Pearl is Jewish, another note is sent warning that Pearl would be executed.
http://treesaver.publicintegrity.org/daniel_pearl#-/node/48

In other words, the ISI-Atta-Moneyman sent emails into the world to "let it look like" an Al Qaeda operation. That email included the hand with the pistol.

No surprise that the hands of Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh look pretty much like the pistol hand but that's not part of the investigation.

Part 7 — Killing the Journalist

Al Qaeda operative Khalid Sheikh Mohammed arrives at the safehouse to behead Pearl. Mohammed later tells the FBI he was drawn in by a senior Al Qaeda leader who said the kidnappers didn't know what to do with Pearl and that Al Qaeda should "take advantage of it."
http://treesaver.publicintegrity.org/daniel_pearl#-/node/48

Try to tell the story!
An ISI asset just kidnapped Pearl obviously without any useful plan.
He took pictures with chains and gun.
He posed in the emails as Al Qaeda fighter.
He allegedly handed him over to Al Qaeda because "the kidnappers didn't know what to do" and KSM who finally did the dirty job.

Next step: KSM was lured to an ISI safehouse because he trusted the ISI and always used ISI safehouses for his activities. He was captured and tortured and allegedly confessed the killing of Daniel Pearl (the smell of intelligence all over it).

Btw, we talk about THE EVENT that made the small brains to accept torture.

Part 10 — Rushing to Judgment

After a three-month trial of Omar Sheikh and three others that is closed to the public, all four are convicted on July 15, 2002, of murdering Pearl.

And there is a crucial gap between Part 9 and Part 10!
Omar Sheikh was concealed by the ISI for 1 week while the police searched the entire country for him.

rottop00179.png

An FBI agent assigned to the Pearl case, Michael Dick, edited the frames of the murder video in 2004 to show the hand of the killer, who wore a mask. The frames showed what Nomani’s report calls a “bulging vein” running across the hand. And that could be enough of a clue. While “not as reliable” as biometric data like fingerprints or iris scans — and “not widely tested,” the report notes — vascular technology is basically a process of vein-matching. “By extracting the information of the vascular structure of a hand or finger and converting it into a mathematical quantity,” according to Nomani’s report, “this technology creates a template for each structure and then compares the template of a known individual to a suspect.” After sending the data to KSM’s CIA captors, Dick heard back: “The photo you sent me and the hand of our friend inside the cage seem identical to me.”
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/01/qaeda-killers-veins-implicate-him-in-journos-murder/

BINGO!

Where is the vein?
 
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Glad you cleared that up.
All the difference in the world, forcing death by water, or taking the prisoner almost to death using water without any assurance he won't be killed in the process.
Kinda like being somewhat pregnant.


I find it most interesting that you haven't commented in the negative on the fed guv having the power to target and assassinate a terrorist - the ultimate denial of human rights - and yet still whine about that same fed guv entity waterboarding a guy to get intel.

Nothing but hypocrisy.
 
KSM confessing to crimes he could not have committed is a common truther fantasy which I think started with Fetzer. Can you cite any examples of him doing so?
You don't get it. It doesn't matter what KSM allegedly confessed after 183 waterboardings in one month. IT DOESN'T MATTER!

KSM claimed a much lower number as quoted by the Red Cross: “I was subjected to 'water-boarding' on five occasions, all of which occurred during that first month.”

http://www.nybooks.com/media/doc/2010/04/22/icrc-report.pdf

Wow, that's what he told the Red Cross? Do you get it now?
The CIA reports 183 times during March 2003. That's pretty much one month, I guess.

rottop00199.png

May 30, 2005 Bradbury memo, p.37
CIA IG report

Though I agree that torture taints confessions KSM bragged about his role planning 9/11 to Al-Jazeera before he was arrested
To Al-Jazeera? ...mostly to Yosri Fouda, I guess.
Why should KSM have any problem with his confessions allegedly given to Yosri Fouda? Why has KSM any problem with the computer in the safe house where he was captured? According to the JihadNews that house belonged to the ISI. Other source say it was an Al Qaeda safe house.

rottop00200.png


The Al Jazeera’s Afghanistan bureau chief, Tayseer Alouni, who interviewed Osama bin Laden, was convicted of being an agent of al Qaeda and sentenced to prison in Spain.
KSM "confessed" to be the Media Operations Director for Al-Sahab,the media outlet that provided Al Qaeda sponsored information to Al Jazeera Four.
Why Yosri Fouda from London? ...especially if every message from allegedly Al Qaeda was immediatly on all channels and the internet?

Why the hell should KSM have any problem with a Mohammed Atta image on a computer if he allows his "PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE" to read his pre-fabricated final statement - the known "confession" - just some minutes later. And in that pre-fabricated final statement he allegedly confesses to be responsible for the 9/11 Operation from A to Z? It's somehow strange, isn't it?

Who sent the silent "laughing Atta" confession tape to Yosri Fouda? Allegedly the tape was found by the US troops at Tarnak Farm. That tape was professionally edited in the sense of altered. Who ever altered the tape deleted the sound. Why should anyone from Al Qaeda send that altered silent tape to London?

If KSM was the media operations director for Al-Sahab then which of both videos was produced by Al-Sahab? Is it the professional hijacker last will video or the extremly poor and amateurish Daniel Pearl video?

aljazeera.png


Why should a Media Operations Director produce an trash-like amateurish video of his single one "media appearance"?

You can answer all these questions to yourself. Imho the entire story makes no sense at all and one need no special education to see it.
 
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We are talking about guy that defintely knew stuff. If it took pouring water on his face to get it so what. I would personally do it . And not lose any sleep at all .

Probably not a good idea as you apparently have no clue what waterboarding involves. Why is it that the most rabidly vengeful posters need to use pathetic euphemisms like "pouring water on his face" or "his little wash"?

Which aspect of the reality of their anti-heros' torture are they afraid of?




Right there with ya. Hell, I'd gladly do it to him personally! With a smile on my face, the whole time!

Thanks for letting us know that you are psychopath.


I see that JihadJane is repeating the lie that Japanese soldiers were executed for waterboarding Americans in WWII.

It's not a lie

I personally think that you using the memory of Daniel Pearl to defend KSM's comfort for no other reason than to thumb your nose at the "evil empire" is pretty damn disrespectful.

Please point out where I have defended "KSM's comfort".


You forgot to add........"I have no doubt"! Why are you asking me to substantiate my "I have no doubt" comment? Must really grind that I didnt say what you implied I said, think I said and wanted me to say. Too versed in counter terrorism and a bit long in the tooth for that.

What did KSM say, and promote, pre capture?

What did KSM confirm once captured?

What does KSM say now?

You concentrate on his lies. I concentrate on what matters. 10 lies to 1 truth. 100 lies to 1 truth. So what? Was KSM telling the truth when he said that he told lies. He has a lot to lose. You confirmed him as a liar.........yes! Did he lie about lieing? Wouldnt it be in his interests to create the assumption that everything he said was a lie? Ya know........"they illegally waterboarded me your honor", "so I simply confirmed everything I had already said when I was free in me cave thousands of miles away", "honest your honor". lol.

Quite difficult to get around his cave confessions before his capture and post waterboarding confessions though! What would your advise be to him?

As the known resident 'human rights blagger' and 'dogooder come Jihad' it appears that you have a one sided view of who should have those rights. We have seen harrowing pictures of a civilian Danial Pearl being held against his will and being threatened with a hand gun. We know he was decapitated for being a jew and infidel on video. We have his killers confession. Do you accept this?

Yet you show absolutley no animosity or ill feeling towards his barbaric treatment at the hands of his butchers and prefer to sit in your ivory tower bleating about waterboarding being inhumane and useless and fraudulantley cite incorrect and misleading links to substantiate your own claims about waterboarding.

I'm simply asking you to support your assertion "the waterboarding of KSM lead to much inteligence about his organisation, other planned attacks, atrocities, people, places, names, training camps, safehouses, weapons, explosives, drugs, money etc etc etc. ................................saving thousands of lives" with some real facts.
 
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Obviously you've never been to Brooklyn post 9/11 nor do you know any FDNY members. I hate to remind you of these very popular window stickers. [qimg]http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7858/3339756837306db985d1.jpg[/qimg]

How is this relevant to tying someone to the back of a truck and dragging them around town for a parade?


I have a feeling anyone displaying one of these might show up (to my absurd imaginary public execution scenario that would never ever happen in real life. Again, don't think I meant THIS SHOULD HAPPEN. I was just trying to imagine the worst possible punishment for a savage animal that absolutely deserves it).

Aren't you embarrassed to be advertising the fact that you have the same fantasies as white supremacist murderers?
 
No matter where I google, I can't find the phrase in the 5th Amendment that says 5 (five) violations are OK, if they're performed on an ugly rag-head.
I tend to interpret it as NO violations are OK, on anyone, at anytime for any reason, EVER!
NO is such an easy word to understand....... one would hope.
The legal "no person shall be" is even clearer.
 
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Probably not a good idea as you apparently have no clue what waterboarding involves. Why is it that the most rabidly vengeful posters need to use pathetic euphemisms like "pouring water on his face" or "his little wash"?

Which aspect of the reality of their anti-heros' torture are they afraid of?

Pouring water on somebody's face is exactly what waterboarding involves. Yes, I understand that it makes the person feel like they are drowning. Yes, it is a form of torture. So what. If you like I will state it in no uncertain terms. I fully support torturing mass murdering terrorists. Maybe it will lead to useful information. If not, oh well, he is savage piece of **** that got what was coming to him.
 
Pouring water on somebody's face is exactly what waterboarding involves.

No, it's a little more complex than that.

Yes, I understand that it makes the person feel like they are drowning. Yes, it is a form of torture. So what. If you like I will state it in no uncertain terms. I fully support torturing mass murdering terrorists. Maybe it will lead to useful information. If not, oh well, he is savage piece of **** that got what was coming to him.

Why the silly euphemisms? Do they make you feel more manly or something?

:confused:
 
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No, it's a little more complex than that.



Why the silly euphemisms? Do they make you feel more manly or something?

:confused:
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Lynch mentality, or something festering since the Inquisition or the Salem witch trials where the accusation was the conviction.
"Don't bother me with facts....." :(
 
You will never know if your information is useful or not.

Sure you can. It is called "investigation". <snip>

Edited, breach of rule 12.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Locknar
 
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Wow, that's what he told the Red Cross? Do you get it now?
The CIA reports 183 times during March 2003. That's pretty much one month, I guess.

[qimg]http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8707/rottop00199.png[/qimg]
May 30, 2005 Bradbury memo, p.37
CIA IG report

Wrong again:

The New York Times reported last week that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind of the Sept. 11 terror attacks, was waterboarded 183 times in one month by CIA interrogators. The "183 times" was widely circulated by news outlets throughout the world.

It was shocking. And it was highly misleading. The number is a vast inflation, according to information from a U.S. official and the testimony of the terrorists themselves.

A U.S. official with knowledge of the interrogation program told FOX News that the much-cited figure represents the number of times water was poured onto Mohammed's face -- not the number of times the CIA applied the simulated-drowning technique on the terror suspect. According to a 2007 Red Cross report, he was subjected a total of "five sessions of ill-treatment."

"The water was poured 183 times -- there were 183 pours," the official explained, adding that "each pour was a matter of seconds."​

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/200...ts-khalid-sheikh-mohammed-waterboarded-times/




To Al-Jazeera? ...mostly to Yosri Fouda, I guess.
Why should KSM have any problem with his confessions allegedly given to Yosri Fouda?

Irrelevant, he admited his role before he was arrested.

Why has KSM any problem with the computer in the safe house where he was captured? According to the JihadNews that house belonged to the ISI. Other source say it was an Al Qaeda safe house.

Did you mean GobalJihad? An obscure website that doesn't cite sources? You'll cite anything if you think it support your veiw

The Al Jazeera’s Afghanistan bureau chief, Tayseer Alouni, who interviewed Osama bin Laden, was convicted of being an agent of al Qaeda and sentenced to prison in Spain.

Citation? Relevence?

KSM "confessed" to be the Media Operations Director for Al-Sahab,the media outlet that provided Al Qaeda sponsored information to Al Jazeera Four.


Citation? Relevence?
 
How is this relevant to tying someone to the back of a truck and dragging them around town for a parade?

Maybe if you talked to some of those people more directly hit by the attacks you might then better understand my underlying anger. (human nature is an ugly thing at times and I won't pretend to have a "better than thou" attitude like you) Not saying everyone would agree with my (made up and admittedly absurd) idea, but I know for a FACT that I am far from alone.

Aren't you embarrassed to be advertising the fact that you have the same fantasies as white supremacist murderers?
Oh, I'm sorry. You must point out where I said take an innocent man, trick him into a vehicle, beat him unconscious, urinate on him, drag him on a drunken hillbilly ride and dump his body unceremoniously in a cemetery just because he was different than I? No I didn't say that. Don't try to implicate that I did. IIRC public sentiment at the time was to do the same back to the criminals. Get going, you have a few million to lambaste. Also have fun picketing the horror DVD section at blockbuster for peoples "fantasies" of murder and gore. :rolleyes:

I also noticed you quoted McCain a few times about Japanese being hung for waterboarding. Unfortunately for your argument, Japanese waterboarding was usually followed by swift execution and the hiding of remains (to conceal the torture). Did we: starve KSM? Did we put him on a forced death march? Did we have him build bridges and roads in a disease infested jungle with no medical care of any kind? Did we cut his head off with a katana in a victory ceremony (IOW, no trial)? Did we cannibalize him? Waterboarding was a very small part on a big list that got people executed for war crimes. Stop implying Japanese were executed solely for water torture.
 
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Instead of gamboling around the barracks with your chums, think about being in StoneAgeistan, at a facility where their concern about your survival is zip, and they are put the question to you, and you don't know the answer.
They have no reason to maintain your life, and turning you into carbon residue to be disposed at the local landfill doesn't bother them.
And... you don't the answer!
Wanna bet you'll come up with one?
Or 183, on request?

I Ratant,

While I usually agree with you, and see you are a reasonable guy, I disagree completely with your shifting of the goalposts. I asked you specifically, if the process of waterboarding was more dangerous as it is used more.
 

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