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KSM beheaded Pearl: A challenge for Truthers

achimspok said:
Where is the vein?
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I'll ask again. Would you expect a hand that is resting to have the same protruding veins as one that is holding a gun getting ready to shoot someone? Have you even been in a combat situation?

I have. I can tell you that with the heart racing, and the adrenaline flowing, that my hand would look much different than it does now.

Try it. Photograph your hand right now, as you are typing. Then, get in a fight, and look at them. Two very distinguishable pictures.
 
JihadJane said:
Aren't you embarrassed to be advertising the fact that you have the same fantasies as white supremacist murderers?
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Wow, talk about a logical fallacy. Awesome!

Punishing someone for a crime that they committed, and dragging someone around by a truck because they were black, are NOT the same. Not at all.

But hey, good post. :rolleyes:
 
triforcharity said:
I Ratant,

While I usually agree with you, and see you are a reasonable guy, I disagree completely with your shifting of the goalposts. I asked you specifically, if the process of waterboarding was more dangerous as it is used more.
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If a person is susceptible to heart failure and stroke, doing it once is dangerous.
 
achimspok said:
You will never know if your information is useful or not.
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Wow, that's stupid.

So, if I ask him if he knows where they are making bombs. He says yes. He then tells me at the corner of Camel Drive and Jihad Lane, in the brown house. I send my guys over there, and sure enough, they are making bombs in there. I then arrest off of them too.

Does that mean the information was USEFUL or USELESS?

Pick one.
 
triforcharity said:
So is cocaine and sex. Not the point.
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The point is if cocaine and sex are FORCED on a person susceptible to heart failure and stroke, it is a dangerous act.

I'm quite amazed at how you were unable to differentiate between an involuntary act and a voluntary one.
 
IDB87 said:
The point is if cocaine and sex are FORCED on a person susceptible to heart failure and stroke, it is a dangerous act.

I'm quite amazed at how you were unable to differentiate between an involuntary act and a voluntary one.
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If a man is worried about his weak heart he probably shouldn't wage jihad in the first place. KSM himself didn't condemn his own torture. He accepted it as a "fighter" and likened it to (his interpretation of) Sharia law's exception of killing infidels.

It seems as though he's telling the tribunal that "we're all scumbags and we get what we feel each other deserves".
 
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Justin39640 said:
If a man is worried about his weak heart he probably shouldn't wage jihad in the first place.
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That was not the topic we were discussing.

We were discussing whether or not water-boarding is dangerous. In people who have bad hearts and may be susceptible to strokes, doing it once could result in death.

If you wish to talk about this, feel free.
 
IDB87 said:
That was not the topic we were discussing.

We were discussing whether or not water-boarding is dangerous. In people who have bad hearts and may be susceptible to strokes, doing it once could result in death.

If you wish to talk about this, feel free.
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Of course it is. My point is that upon joining forces and waging jihad against the west, KSM knew that he was putting himself, his family, friends, etc in extreme peril. He also knew that, if captured, he would face hard times in the form of torture for actionable intel, lengthy incarceration, and possible execution.

He also knew the US wouldn't let him die during those tortures (and another reason why he didn't really talk. What good is torture without an actual fear of death?)

It was a calculated risk and he knew it from day one. He gambled and lost. In a roundabout way he did volunteer.

That is my point.
 
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I just want to add that this thread (although the subject matter is pretty awful), in a subforum that is typically quite polarized, shows that people in the same group can and do disagree. Debunkers don't all toe the same line, just about 9/11 in this little corner of the intertubez.
 
triforcharity said:
I Ratant,

While I usually agree with you, and see you are a reasonable guy, I disagree completely with your shifting of the goalposts. I asked you specifically, if the process of waterboarding was more dangerous as it is used more.
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.
No shifting.
Those goalposts are anchored in the Constitution of the United States of America, which states "NO waterboarding"!
There are many methods of coercive interrogation which are more dangerous or less dangerous, but the citizens of the United States of America are prohibited from using -any- of them, from sleep deprivation to flaying.
Their danger isn't a subject of better/worse, as all of them are illegal.
And even a freely given confession must be backed up with good evidence.
The difference between 9/11 and the shoe bomber is so great, that accepting both as the product of one "mastermind" has to be questionable, and these came out before the torture.
Nothing after can be accepted.
That getting -any- evidence that KSM had -any- relevance to anything he said before his capture or after is probably impossible.
There must be a lily-pure trail of prosecution investigation and proof for any determination of guilt. "beyond reasonable doubt"... and bragging about something isn't reasonable proof of anything when the situation is as important as this.
 
Justin39640 said:
If a man is worried about his weak heart he probably shouldn't wage jihad in the first place. KSM himself didn't condemn his own torture. He accepted it as a "fighter" and likened it to (his interpretation of) Sharia law's exception of killing infidels.

It seems as though he's telling the tribunal that "we're all scumbags and we get what we feel each other deserves".
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.
Your rules for jihad are noted. LOL!
.
Seems to me, a person truly dedicated to the cause, expecting to be a martyr, would resist to the point of gladly accepting death, as a true believer.
Another reason to place less faith in what KSM says.
Those guys in the planes killed themselves, not on a whim, but with the certain knowledge they would be dead sometime -after- they signed up.
But then, as I've noted, it isn't the Imams that strap on the bombs, but the schlumpfs they talk into doing it.
 
I would expect him to die for the cause.
That he hasn't makes his devotion suspect.
It is OK to die trying to be on a jihad, as well as dying while trying the Haj.
Making the effort is what counts.
And his "confessions" lack sincerity, because they keep him alive.
 
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