Kent Hovind gets 10 years

Patriot Bible UniversityWP

It was established in 1979 as Patriot University in Dallas, Texas at the home of school founder Lonnie Skinner.[2] He serves as instructor of school and served as pastor of College Heights Baptist Church.
Beginning in March 1988 the school was authorized by the State of Colorado Higher Education Commission to issue religious degrees.
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Patriot Bible University operates under the legal authority of the State of Colorado.

Gene
 
Zep said:
And I'll let you keep guessing (because that's all you are doing) if I am an atheist or not. Because until you know for sure, your arguments are pretty much baseless. Consider for a moment: Would you have a different argument if it turned out I was a believer?
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My point...
  • If you would argue, as some atheists do, that there is no right or wrong, that those are value judgments,
makes no assessment as to what you are or aren’t. It is possible to reason like a hard atheist yet not be one.

Gene
 
AgingYoung said:
Patriot Bible University operates under the legal authority of the State of Colorado.
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That's not what you wrote the first time, Gene. Just so you won't forget, here's what you wrote the first time:

Patriot Bible University is authorized by the State of Colorado Higher Education Commission to issue religious degrees.
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Those two statements are not the same, are they, Gene? One insinuates that it has the approval of a state higher-education commission. Can you tell which one misrepresents this, Gene? Yes, that's it, the first one you wrote misrepresented reality. Very good!

Now, Gene, since you are of such high moral character, be so kind as to respond to the rest of my points. I so detest those people who only reply to those points that they think so likely to prevail on. So, please, O Conscience of the Forum, review my post and bless me with your almighty wisdom as I, obviously, have lost my way. :blush:
 
Zep said:
See, this tax case is not Hovind's ONLY instance of wrong-doing. Like Al Capone, it's simply the one they nailed him with.
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This is not counting his ludicrous behaviour on the "creationist lecture circuit", of which his gaffes, boobs, chicanery, and glaring mistakes have kept us both highly entertained and with our teeth on edge with his sheer brazen stupidity. Well, stupid until they pass the hat around for "donations" to thank him...a common conman method of separating the money from the marks (see elsewhere about "Kaz" and Sylvia Browne, equally guilty).
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It is not illegal to ask for donations.

More? Hovind has had a $250,000 Challenge out for some time for someone to "prove evolution". It had a ludicrous set of requirements to be met that Hovind obviously knew full well were utter baloney. But a question arises now that he has had his finances exposed in public: If he has never had more than a few thousand dollars to his own name, as he has claimed, how could he have offered a quarter million dollars as a prize for anything? If the money WAS available, he was a knowing liar recently. If it was not, his so-called challenge has been a total fraud because he would have never been able to pay up, and he knew it all along. Do you not agree?
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No, I don't agree. There are people that can raise that kind of money over night. One way would be to obtain it from someone that has it should the need arise. Randi raised one million in a single donation.

It had a ludicrous set of requirements to be met that Hovind obviously knew full well were utter baloney.
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His challenge, his requirements. If you wouldn't like the requirements then don't enter the challenge; nothing illegal there.

A comparison between Capone and Hovind is patently absurd and flies in the face of reason.

Gene
 
Just for the record, this is the complete campus of Patriot "University".

pucampus.jpg
 
Oh, Zep, can't you just see yourself strolling the grounds at twilight discussing Chaucer and Tolstoy while the frosh play rugby in the distance? I so cherish my days at Patriot Bible, punting along the river with my best girl. However, I do remember how bawdy the frats were at Rush, don't you? :D
 
AgingYoung said:
My point...
  • If you would argue, as some atheists do, that there is no right or wrong, that those are value judgments,
makes no assessment as to what you are or aren’t. It is possible to reason like a hard atheist yet not be one.

Gene
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Strawman, Gene. Please show me where I argued there was no right or wrong. I do believe I argued to the contrary - Hovind was indeed WRONG. The wrongest kind of wrong. In my opinion, not only was he way wrong about his business operations and tax obligations, he was also way wrong with respect to his preachings to others.

Oh, by the way - thanks for admitting that my religious beliefs, or lack thereof, actually have nothing to do with the topic. They don't, and neither do yours, incidentally.
 
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Slimething said:
Oh, Zep, can't you just see yourself strolling the grounds at twilight discussing Chaucer and Tolstoy while the frosh play rugby in the distance? I so cherish my days at Patriot Bible, punting along the river with my best girl. However, I do remember how bawdy the frats were at Rush, don't you? :D
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Ah, those were the days! Dinner in the Great Hall, a round of squash in the gym... Ripping, wot?
 
Yes, but did he buy his fake PhD for $100 from the young lady in the picture?
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It was your point that the facility was an an indication of the quality of education, or what was your point of posting that outdated picture of Patriot Bible University?

Could you put some basis of fact behind your reason for thinking that Hovind bought his degree?

Gene
 
Also, it's a matter of fact that Patriot Bible University has the authority to issue religious degrees; it was authorized by the State of Colorado Higher Education Commission. I am curious what proof you have that he simply bought the degree.

Gene
 
What's also interesting is since Hovind's mail order purchase Patriot University is now called Patriot Bible University and it no longers issues PhDs.

Currently, you can get a "Doctor of Ministry" degree in months (as opposed to years from accredited places) for as little as $40 per month.

That is, Patriot has a monthly fee ($40-50), unlike most universities, which only charge per-credit fees. http://patriotuniversity.com/financial.htm

But I guess what this boils down to is: Is Hovind educated? No, he is not. Bible scholars don't consider his credentials as showing legitimate authority in theology, and scientists laugh him out of the room.

Is it misleading for him to tell people he was a teacher, and has a PhD in education. As opposed to the truth that he taught at private schools that didn't require accredited degrees, his PhD is not accredited and his subject was Christian Education? You bet.
 
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AgingYoung said:
It was your point that the facility was an an indication of the quality of education, or what was your point of posting that outdated picture of Patriot Bible University?

Could you put some basis of fact behind your reason for thinking that Hovind bought his degree?

Gene
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He did do work for his religious "degree." However, the work required was poor.

His dissertation is incomplete, low academic quality, poor writing, poor spelling, and ungrammatical style. Hardly anything an accredited school would approve.

See: http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/bartelt_dissertation_on_hovind_thesis.htm

I'm curious as to what proof you have that his degree is on par with an accredited school?
 
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AgingYoung said:
It was your point that the facility was an an indication of the quality of education, or what was your point of posting that outdated picture of Patriot Bible University?

Could you put some basis of fact behind your reason for thinking that Hovind bought his degree?

Gene
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The evidence that all they do is sell degrees is to visit their website, http://www.patriotuniversity.com, and order one for yourself: http://www.patriotuniversity.com/tuitionpay.htm They are a degree mill.

So since they don't actually provide anything in the way of actual tuition (it's a do-it-yourself "course"), we can conclude that ANY degree from Patriot University is a purchased degree. Therefore Hovind's degree was also a purchased degree.

Unless, of course, he has concocted a forged Patriot University degree in MS Word all by himself. But that would be wrong, wouldn't it. Not to mention stupid. ;)
 
Questioninggeller said:
I'm curious as to what proof you have that his degree is on par with an accredited school?
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I've never made the point that it is or isn't on par. My only point is that the laws of Colorado established the State of Colorado Higher Education Commission. That commission has the authority to authorize colleges and universities to issue degrees. It isn't a valid point to call his degree 'fake'. It's a perfectly legal document.

Now you might not agree that they have the 'proper' facilities as has been pointed out. From personal experience I went through a math course in high school in one half the term. I was in the class but I wasn't really in it. When I would get to a point to test my teacher would test me then I'd move on. My brother did independent study at an accreditted university out of a small office he shared with two other students. He seldom went to any class for two years. He earned his degree in three years. Where you are learning is irrellevent yet people want to make that a point. It isn't.

The point from that site you posted was the quality of his thesis. It really isn't anyone's position to grade and accept or reject that thesis. That is the task of Patriot Bible University and they decided. You might not agree with their decision but it wasn't yours to make.

The beginning point from that site was the nature of a thesis...
  • A thesis is a body of ORIGINAL research
I didn't know that all thesis were 'original reserach'.

The focus of a practitioner doctorate's dissertation is usually application, rather than creation, of theories. This focus appeals to non-academicians such as educators, teachers, business executives, leaders, civil servants and other practitioners who are more interested in the successful application of advanced theories in their respective professions rather than academic research into their field.
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It seems that link you provided immediately starts off on the wrong foot then elaborates a disagreement with the decision that
  • wasn't their decision to make
  • criticizes the decision that Patriot Bible University made.

Having said all that the final arbitrator is Patriot Bible University, duly acting with in its legal authority in the State of Colorado. You might not agree with a lot of things about the degree yet it is indeed a perfectly legal document. You might want to try and change the laws of Colorado so that things like this that sore displease you won't happen in the future.

Gene
 
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