John Edward - psychic or what?

[Pixel42]

For the record I first came across the quote in the skeptic's dictionary entry on the law of truly large numbers (coincidence):

http://www.skepdic.com/lawofnumbers.html

 

[xterra]

http://www.davidmyers.org/Brix?pageID=91

For the record I first came across the quote in the skeptic's dictionary entry on the law of truly large numbers (coincidence):

http://www.skepdic.com/lawofnumbers.html

Thank you both.

I note that in the reference dafydd gave, at the bottom of the blog entry is this:

Adapted from Intuition: Its Powers and Perils, by David G. Myers, Yale University Press, 2002. It may be that the original formulation was in that book. I will attempt to find a copy and verify that.[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

 

[shep]

I didn't make it to the end of the thread, so I apologise if someone's already suggested this or if my suggestions have already been rendered impossible, but here are my thoughts"

A cold method: JE starts off with a name.. it could go anywhere at this point -- if he gets a Joshua, then fine, maybe he goes straight into a routine with that person's relatives. In this case, perhaps a combination of (a) the look of affirmation/recognition from Liam at Remie's table, (b) the look of bewilderment from other table members who have met Liam under the name "Liam" once he stands up [which seems to just be Remie.. did you react much, Remie? Did other people at the table react to Liam standing up?], and (c) JE's cold reading skills lead him to quickly notice someone semi-reluctantly acknowledging their name to be Joshua and standing up leaving their table partners looking bewildered. It is then pretty likely that Joshua didn't introduce himself that way to them. The most probable explanation for *that*, by far, is that they go by their middle name.

This theory relies on JE being pretty good at what he does, and probably seems easier in hindsight than it would be on the spot, but hey.. that's his job.

A hot method: Before and during the show, JE has people running plate numbers from vehicles in the carpark and cross-referencing details with some other info databases. I don't know how easy this is for non-LEOs in the states (I assume this is USA?). If you find that a car is registered to Joshua Liam Surname, and then you search some other (more open) national database and find a record with "Preferred Name: Liam", you've got a pretty sweet hot read to perform later.

This theory relies on some possibly not-entirely-legal behaviour if it's about running plate numbers.. but there are probably legal alternatives, depending on where else Liam has shared his personal information, what stickers he might have on his car, etc. etc.


Disclaimer: I don't know what I'm talking about and I've skipped most of the thread.

 

[dafydd]

Thank you both.

I note that in the reference dafydd gave, at the bottom of the blog entry is this:

Adapted from Intuition: Its Powers and Perils, by David G. Myers, Yale University Press, 2002. It may be that the original formulation was in that book. I will attempt to find a copy and verify that.[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

We don't need verification to know that mediums are con artists.

 

[wardenclyffe]

There's an entire skeptical website devoted to showing coincidences and that very uncommon experiences are actually quite common:

http://www.theoddsmustbecrazy.com/

And batvette, I did not mean it as a criticism to talk about telepathy in a John Edwards thread. I was subtly (perhaps too subtly) suggesting that you start a new thread with your topic that I think is worthy of discussion instead of burying it where no one would look for it (unless they were telepathic of course). I'd use a smiley emoticon here, but I just can't bring myself to do it.

Ward

 

[carlitos]

You invited your Dad too. Why didn't your brother dream about him?

I noticed that too.

 

[Robin1]

You invited your Dad too. Why didn't your brother dream about him?

I dunno. My brother and I did actually joke about that when he told me about his dream! So where was Dad?? What, he's too busy? Got other vacation plans? Is he annoyed at Nana? Gonna meet us there later? ...

 

[John Jones]

I dunno. My brother and I did actually joke about that when he told me about his dream! So where was Dad?? What, he's too busy? Got other vacation plans? Is he annoyed at Nana? Gonna meet us there later? ...

Sounds like classic confirmation bias.

 

[pakeha]

Oh yeah.

I think the most tangible thing to take away from his research, if it does in fact stand up to be that and credible, is that he may be establishing a mechanism to explain how telepathy is possible.
That is a vital component to acceptance as a scientifically documented phenomenon. ...

Well, batvette, the thing is, that research did NOT 'stand up to be that'.
Didn't you read my links and their sources?

 

[pakeha]

batvette...thank you for posting. I do believe in telepathy as well as after death communication. Here's a combination of both! 2 summers ago my family was going to take a trip to Ocean City...the night before i said a private prayer and invited my Nana and Pop-Pop and Dad(who were all deceased) to go with us and be part of the fun. The day of the road trip my brother Occam Jr, who was in Colorado and couldn't attend, phoned me while we were on the road (without any knowledge of my prayer) and told me he had a unique dream where my Nana and Pop_pop were getting in my car the night before. Doug asked them "What are you doing/" and they responded, "Going on the trip with Robin to Ocean City. Remember we are here for you always." My advice.. listen to your gut..and of course , keep the faith.

Batvette, My brother had the dream the same night I said my private prayer. My brother told me he NEVER dreamt of our Nana and Pop-Pop before that night. I never spoke to anyone about inviting my deceased loved ones to come on a trip with us. And I psychically already know the responses to this...it's just a coincidence. Oy vey.

Well, Robin, that's a charming story.

Now about the bible quotation you chopped?
Remember?
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8837579&postcount=503

Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
... I will again offer one final Biblical quote for all here who claim that it is the very teachings in the Bible that have turned you into atheists...and REALLY PLEASE REFLECT on it and how it MAY or may not apply to you:
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."
1 Timothy 4 : 1-2
I find it interesting you use the first half only of that scripture quotation I used.

ETA
Here's the complete quotation:
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron." 1 Timothy 4:1-2


What was your motive in chopping the scripture, Robin?

 

[batvette]

Batvette....time to put in your 2 cents...what were your personal experiences? I would love to hear them and everyone else will love attempting to tear them apart..a win-win!

I could do that but then if they stood up to be to uncanny to be attributed to anything but telepathy (they seem to) the forum is still left to wonder whether I may be just yanking their chain. (I'm not)
With that established I'll share them if you want, if it becomes too heated I'll just end the discussion.

 

[Robin1]

I could do that but then if they stood up to be to uncanny to be attributed to anything but telepathy (they seem to) the forum is still left to wonder whether I may be just yanking their chain. (I'm not)
With that established I'll share them if you want, if it becomes too heated I'll just end the discussion.

Batvette, sounds like a plan...please share! And I'm telling the truth as well. Is that what you were getting at Pixel? I really had no ulterior motive in regard to the scripture quote...the first sentence I quoted I felt was the heart of it and that's why I just put that. But Ok the 2nd sentence is important too, although I don't think all who are tricked are hypocritical liars... I simply think most are nice people who were simply led astray..tricked. Kinda like you all think I've been tricked! Another irony : )

 

[Robin1]

Batvette, sounds like a plan...please share! And I'm telling the truth as well. Is that what you were getting at Pixel? I really had no ulterior motive in regard to the scripture quote...the first sentence I quoted I felt was the heart of it and that's why I just put that. But Ok the 2nd sentence is important too, although I don't think all who are tricked are hypocritical liars... I simply think most are nice people who were simply led astray..tricked. Kinda like you all think I've been tricked! Another irony : )

I'm sorry, I meant Pakeha not Pixel.

 

[pakeha]

No worries, Robin.

I find it interesting you choose to misunderstand the text, though:

Here's the complete quotation:
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron." 1 Timothy 4:1-2

You seem to think that
" But Ok the 2nd sentence is important too, although I don't think all who are tricked are hypocritical liars... I simply think most are nice people who were simply led astray..tricked. "

You are, of course either deliberately twisting the scriptural meaning or simply not able to take in the text's meaning, which is that hypocritical liars trick the gullible.

 

[Pixel42]

I could do that but then if they stood up to be to uncanny to be attributed to anything but telepathy (they seem to) the forum is still left to wonder whether I may be just yanking their chain. (I'm not).

Usually it's whether the described experience is "too uncanny to be attributed to anything but [insert paranormal phenomenon]" that's the point in dispute, rather than the honesty of the person describing it. People tend to greatly underestimate the probability of lucky guesses, and greatly overestimate the accuracy of their perceptions and memory. So even when there's no deliberate deception being practiced (as there almost certainly is by the likes of John Edward) it's still possible for someone with little understanding of the law of truly large number and their own cognitive biases to convince themselves they've experienced the paranormal when there is actually no good reason to believe that is the case.

 

[Robin1]

No worries, Robin.

I find it interesting you choose to misunderstand the text, though:

Here's the complete quotation:
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron." 1 Timothy 4:1-2

You seem to think that
" But Ok the 2nd sentence is important too, although I don't think all who are tricked are hypocritical liars... I simply think most are nice people who were simply led astray..tricked. "

You are, of course either deliberately twisting the scriptural meaning or simply not able to take in the text's meaning, which is that hypocritical liars trick the gullible.

Pakeha, yes I got that. Let me expand ... I believe that Christians who became atheists because of reading the Bible (as some here have said) and even most non believers on this thread are indeed being tricked purposely by hypocritical liars (deceiving spirits). In essence those who have been tricked are then teaching others and spreading untruths like the hypocritical liars who tricked them in the first place. The critical difference is in their motives. Perhaps Randi is an example of that. Perhaps not. Anyway, I think the good people that have been deceived and then attempt to spread those untruths simply think they are helping others ...I do not believe most of them are "hypocritical liars". They are spreading what they honestly believe to be true which is a result of them being tricked in the first place. I know I know, you could say that right back to me...I'm just trying to clarify why I originally only chose to quote the first sentence because I thought that first sentence applied to most people here as opposed to the second. I will stop here because I am even beginning to confuse myself

 

[dlorde]

I think the most tangible thing to take away from his research, if it does in fact stand up to be that and credible, is that he may be establishing a mechanism to explain how telepathy is possible.
That is a vital component to acceptance as a scientifically documented phenomenon.

Sadly, no. We discussed this in one of the consciousness threads on the science forum. Persinger suggests that quantum entanglement may provide a means of communication; unfortunately for him, communication is not possible via quantum entanglement, and the idea that QE can exist between brains as he claims is simply not sustainable, due to decoherence. Further, quantum entanglement requires particles to have a common source; this is not possible in separate brains.

His explanation complete bunk, what odds on the quality of his experiment?

My personal belief, obviously just speculating, is that it- along with many other forms of paranormal activity- may be simply a tool mother nature gave us for survival, part of "instinct". Imagine early man, engaged in persistence hunting, is chasing a deer who has gotten far ahead and he reaches a fork in the trail- which way to go? Not enough time to rationalize his choice, he goes with his gut instinct. A "sixth sense" if you will to guide all others.
The first thing the Silva instructor said was "the first instinctive choice, is usually the right one".

Instinct, hunch, or 'gut feel' has no need of the paranormal. I strongly recommend you get hold of a copy of Malcom Gladwell's 'Blink', which covers this in some detail and rather entertainingly.

... it's absurd to think we know all the secrets of human physiology or what we're capable of.

That's true enough, but we do know we (like everything else) are constrained by the laws of thermodynamics, and we have a good grasp of how they apply to the energetics of human physiology. The paranormal claims made in this context are not supportable. Sorry to disappoint; but if you could find solid, repeatable evidence of such an effect, you could become a very wealthy person.

 

[dlorde]

You know those stories about someone in an emergency needs to lift a car off a relative pinned underneath, and they have an instant of "superhuman strength"?
Well I don't know if they did or not but if you sent them to the olympics they aren't going to be able to duplicate that are they?

No, they aren't. The brain controls the way that the muscles contract. It limits the strength of voluntary muscle contraction (thought to be protection against damage). The number of muscle fibres simultaneously stimulated by the nerves dictates the overall strength of the contraction. Some people are stronger than average simply because they can activate more muscle fibres at a time. In emergencies, surges of adrenalin and stress hormones can cause this restriction to be overcome and temporarily allow a much larger number of muscle fibres to contribute, resulting in abnormal feats of strength (at the risk of joint damage and even broken bones).

So, no great mystery there.

 

[dlorde]

deleted

 

[RemieV]

Wow. Old thread bumped.

To answer the question - Edward would've had to have paranormally good eyesight to gauge anyone's reaction. The man was at least forty feet away with stage lights in his eyes.