John Edward - psychic or what?

[Robin1]

See:



You don't miss a thing, do you?

This is where some of you really do show what you're about.

What in the world makes you think people should bend over backwards to convince you of something? The above events did happen to me, I don't care if you believe them or not. If you don't want to keep an open mind that things could be real then don't. I don't want you to know about them. I don't want you to use any of this to your benefit if they are real.
This is not like religion where I think I get bonus points for saving your soul- I would love nothing better than for you to walk around thinking there is no possible way anyone could ever receive a stray thought from your head, or project one of theirs into yours.

Oh yeah it can't happen. You're right! You know everything there is to know.

I was asked to share these things by another user. If you find them unbelievable then just look away.

batvette, Thank you so much for sharing your experiences! I really do appreciate it. And of course, I believe : ) Remember, you can only plant the seeds, the rest is out of your hands. Happy Holidays to all!

 

[batvette]

No. I don't think I will just look away. I think I will ask for evidence whenever the circumstances arise, if that's OK with you.

And even if it's not OK with you.

Oh I can't stop you, any more than I can stop you from being rude and obnoxious, since I did post this prior:

I could do that but then if they stood up to be to uncanny to be attributed to anything but telepathy (they seem to) the forum is still left to wonder whether I may be just yanking their chain. (I'm not)
With that established I'll share them if you want, if it becomes too heated I'll just end the discussion.

And I started the first of the two posts by addressing Robin by name. Is your name Robin? I don't think so. Doesn't the statement above indicate this is purely for our discussion, expected to be met with less than approval?

With that said I gave Robin what she wanted, you've had your "skeptical" moment for the day, and I don't feel there is many other ways for this to go but south.

Just consider it is your perfectly logical position telepathy does not exist in the face of the lack of evidence before you.

My perfectly logical position is that with the evidence of that experience before me, lacking an alternative explanation, it just may. I have never expected it to be evidence for anyone else but myself.

 

[xterra]

And I started the first of the two posts by addressing Robin by name. Is your name Robin? I don't think so. Doesn't the statement above indicate this is purely for our discussion, expected to be met with less than approval?

batvette,

To say now that your conversation with Robin is private is disingenuous. When you post in an open thread, you should expect that other people will comment on what you post.

With all respect, if your conversation with Robin is private, you should use the private message system.


xterra, who really would prefer you to take your discussion private so that the sarcasm and rudeness levels* in this thread don't increase.

*ETA, from either side.

 

[batvette]

If you can do that then there are a million dollars waiting for you. Don't tell me, the money doesn't interest you.

What makes you think that because I may have done it once, with a person I believe had some kind of "connection" to me, whether actual or perceived, I could do it at any time and to the standard required of this test?
This is one thing I was trying to get across in another thread. If you're thinking it manifests itself as clearly as spoken words to your ears, or is a tool one can call upon at any time for the purposes of parlor tricks or personal profit of a million dollars, I believe that would never be the case.
One thing I'm pretty sure of, put in a laboratory and asked to do it under stress or pressure would make it near impossible. One of Silva's basic beliefs was that this "alpha" state which is when these things might be possible, is one of complete relaxation and training your mind to shut down your senses and almost float outside your body. I think these are things that exist in your subconscious mind.

(and do note that in all these posts I repeatedly reiterate that telepathy MAY have been what happened, and MAY or MAY NOT be a real phenomenon. I'm looking for answers, not pushing BS)

 

[dafydd]

(and do note that in all these posts I repeatedly reiterate that telepathy MAY have been what happened, and MAY or MAY NOT be a real phenomenon. I'm looking for answers, not pushing BS)

Ok, but it sounds more like you are just trying to confirm something that you already believe in.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

One thing I'm pretty sure of, put in a laboratory and asked to do it under stress or pressure would make it near impossible.

Special Pleading.

Look it up.

I just think of the Church Lady saying, "How CONVEEENIENT!"

And how about a nice, relaxing stress-free lab? Would THAT enable it to "work"?

Clearly not - that's the clever part about Special Pleading - there's always some pathetic excuse.

 

[Robin1]

What makes you think that because I may have done it once, with a person I believe had some kind of "connection" to me, whether actual or perceived, I could do it at any time and to the standard required of this test?
This is one thing I was trying to get across in another thread. If you're thinking it manifests itself as clearly as spoken words to your ears, or is a tool one can call upon at any time for the purposes of parlor tricks or personal profit of a million dollars, I believe that would never be the case.
One thing I'm pretty sure of, put in a laboratory and asked to do it under stress or pressure would make it near impossible. One of Silva's basic beliefs was that this "alpha" state which is when these things might be possible, is one of complete relaxation and training your mind to shut down your senses and almost float outside your body. I think these are things that exist in your subconscious mind.

(and do note that in all these posts I repeatedly reiterate that telepathy MAY have been what happened, and MAY or MAY NOT be a real phenomenon. I'm looking for answers, not pushing BS)

Batvette, you took a chance and should be treated with respect by others even if they disagree. That being said, I am going to follow your brave lead...and I know that means goin' down with the ship! But here goes nothin ( and I know that will be repeated in the responses). I had a dream which showed me some unimportant but unique event in a friend's life which turned out to be true. My friend couldn't believe I knew it (even though it was insignificant). I asked my dad how it is possible I knew that information and in another dream he told me that spirits can "impress" ideas upon people( but free will remains). So about a week later I am in a McDonalds's drive thru alone about to order dinner for me , my kids, and 2 friends who are visiting. As I am waiting in line I am having a conversation within myself about how I would love to have a big mac. Weight always being a problem with me I am having an internal debate as to whether I should just order the big mac and enjoy it and start my diet tomorrow. I decide to forget it and just order a cheeseburger for myself cause that diet should really be started ASAP ! I order food for 6 people...no big mac in the list. I get home open up the bag and everything I ordered is exactly what I ordered and the receipt matches it ( I saved the receipt) BUT there is one extra in the bag that I never ordered and was never charged for...a Big Mac.
And here's another one:
A few months later I am on a cruise with family...I had lost a lot of weight in anticipation of the cruise and was going to try not to gain it all back on the cruise. And so when I had a drink I tried to minimize the calories and would only drink vodka and seltzer with a splash of cranberry. On about the 5th day of the cruise we were in a big room waiting for a bingo game to start . I went up to the bar and for the first time on the cruise thought to myself I really want a pina coloda! But that is way too many calories. The bartender was helping someone else and I had another internal tug of war.. just get the pina coloda..then i thought no you worked so hard to lose weight get a drink with lesser calories. The bartender arrived and I ordered my usual vodka and seltzer with a splash of cranberry juice. After that, bingo is about to start but they make an announcement that they are going to use all the names (over 150) that purchased bingo cards and have a drawing to give away..of all things... a pina coloda...so who do you think won that pina coloda! At what point do coincidences become more than coincidences...and I know for some the answer is never. I have so many other "anecdotes" some too special to share ( and yes True That there was a Sixth Sense moment at that John Edward event..too personal and meaningful to share and have people attempt to discredit it) I do truly believe the only thing that matters in the end is being as kind as you can be. Whether you believe in God or not.

 

[Pixel42]

Okay this second example may mean I'm just amazingly intuitive. The first though.... I don't know.

There is nothing at all surprising about a woman who was clearly attracted to you, and knew the feeling was mutual, hearing an "inner voice" telling her to return, nor that you would have been earnestly wishing that she would do so at the time. It certainly isn't evidence of telepathy, just of two people reading each others signals accurately.

We can all tell such stories. The fact remains that all attempts to establish whether there is anything more than chance and human psychology behind such stories (and there have been many) have come to nought.

 

[pakeha]

Pakeha, yes I got that. Let me expand ... I believe that Christians who became atheists because of reading the Bible (as some here have said) and even most non believers on this thread are indeed being tricked purposely by hypocritical liars (deceiving spirits). In essence those who have been tricked are then teaching others and spreading untruths like the hypocritical liars who tricked them in the first place. The critical difference is in their motives. Perhaps Randi is an example of that. Perhaps not. Anyway, I think the good people that have been deceived and then attempt to spread those untruths simply think they are helping others ...I do not believe most of them are "hypocritical liars". They are spreading what they honestly believe to be true which is a result of them being tricked in the first place. I know I know, you could say that right back to me...I'm just trying to clarify why I originally only chose to quote the first sentence because I thought that first sentence applied to most people here as opposed to the second. I will stop here because I am even beginning to confuse myself

What an excellent example of deliberate misunderstanding, Robin.
I thought it was clear that the "hypocritical liars" are the conmen who batten on the bereaved and you've chosen to claim it is clear the "hypocritical liars" are those who expose the vicious deceit of these predators.

But back to the OP- JE's show as proof of psychic communication with the 'dead'.
Here's a link to an article that expresses it all very well:
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/john_edward_hustling_the_bereaved/

"At the time I appreciated the fact that I surprised my clients, but while aware of the fact that I was deceiving them I did not see or understand the seriousness of trifling with such sacred sentimentality and the baneful result which inevitably followed." H Houdini

I have the impression that by propagating JE's act, Robin, you are actively contributing to this deception of the vulnerable.

Wow. Old thread bumped.

To answer the question - Edward would've had to have paranormally good eyesight to gauge anyone's reaction. The man was at least forty feet away with stage lights in his eyes.

Old thread? OK
RemieV, I have over 25 years of stage experience and a seasoned pro has no problem with stage lighting whilst on the platform. When we squint and ask the techs to change the angles of the lighting, etc. it's for other reasons.

How odd it would have occurred to you stage lighting and distance would be factors whatsoever in establishing the charlatanry of JE. I'm surprised The Amazing One didn't tell you about that himself.

 

[dafydd]

A few months later I am on a cruise with family...I had lost a lot of weight in anticipation of the cruise and was going to try not to gain it all back on the cruise. And so when I had a drink I tried to minimize the calories and would only drink vodka and seltzer with a splash of cranberry. On about the 5th day of the cruise we were in a big room waiting for a bingo game to start . I went up to the bar and for the first time on the cruise thought to myself I really want a pina coloda! But that is way too many calories. The bartender was helping someone else and I had another internal tug of war.. just get the pina coloda..then i thought no you worked so hard to lose weight get a drink with lesser calories. The bartender arrived and I ordered my usual vodka and seltzer with a splash of cranberry juice. After that, bingo is about to start but they make an announcement that they are going to use all the names (over 150) that purchased bingo cards and have a drawing to give away..of all things... a pina coloda...so who do you think won that pina coloda! At what point do coincidences become more than coincidences...and I know for some the answer is never. I have so many other "anecdotes" some too special to share ( and yes True That there was a Sixth Sense moment at that John Edward event..too personal and meaningful to share and have people attempt to discredit it) I do truly believe the only thing that matters in the end is being as kind as you can be. Whether you believe in God or not.

There are seven billion people on the planet. If a coincidence like that did not happen to at least one person everyday, that would be remarkable. And it's pina colada.

 

[pakeha]

... I decide to forget it and just order a cheeseburger for myself cause that diet should really be started ASAP ! I order food for 6 people...no big mac in the list. I get home open up the bag and everything I ordered is exactly what I ordered and the receipt matches it ( I saved the receipt) BUT there is one extra in the bag that I never ordered and was never charged for...a Big Mac.
And here's another one: .... After that, bingo is about to start but they make an announcement that they are going to use all the names (over 150) that purchased bingo cards and have a drawing to give away..of all things... a pina coloda...so who do you think won that pina coloda! At what point do coincidences become more than coincidences...and I know for some the answer is never. I have so many other "anecdotes" some too special to share ( and yes True That there was a Sixth Sense moment at that John Edward event..too personal and meaningful to share and have people attempt to discredit it) I do truly believe the only thing that matters in the end is being as kind as you can be. Whether you believe in God or not.

Are you saying the dead and/or god wants you to be fat?

 

[Robin1]

Are you saying the dead and/or god wants you to be fat?

Maybe, cause I did end up eating the cheeseburger AND the Big Mac : )

 

[batvette]

Special Pleading.

Look it up.

I just think of the Church Lady saying, "How CONVEEENIENT!"

And how about a nice, relaxing stress-free lab? Would THAT enable it to "work"?

Clearly not - that's the clever part about Special Pleading - there's always some pathetic excuse.

Your bitter contempt is not necessary, there are many people out there who honestly would like to find the truth about this, and do not pursue this as a vehicle for fraud and opportunism against the weak of mind.
I feel no need to make "pathetic excuses" for anyone's benefit, nor should I apologize for not meeting anyone's demands. If I was claiming I could inject thoughts in anyone's mind at any time you might have an argument there but that is not the case here.

I don't believe the "stress level" of the lab is nearly the total of all the barriers that may be present. What if it were a tool which only worked between specific and rare individuals- and only when they were on a certain level of well being (example, the pseudoscience of biorythms) and even then only when the subconscious detected an actual need for this to happen- as I offered with the analogy of superhuman strength in an emergency.

These are not "pathetic excuses" but possible factors any person with an open mind might choose to consider may come into play in a search for an elusive phenomenon.

If one has made up their mind that they don't want to ever isolate and identify such a phenomenon that is hardly a position to envy. You are free to disbelieve as you will, but since you cannot prove a null the question may never be answered. Exposing charlatans such as Edwards is one thing. Unlocking the potential of human physiology is another and hardly something to treat with such disdain.

 

[batvette]

There are seven billion people on the planet. If a coincidence like that did not happen to at least one person everyday, that would be remarkable. And it's pina colada.

One of my friends used to call them "peenchy colonics".

 

[Robin1]

What an excellent example of deliberate misunderstanding, Robin.
I thought it was clear that the "hypocritical liars" are the conmen who batten on the bereaved and you've chosen to claim it is clear the "hypocritical liars" are those who expose the vicious deceit of these predators.

But back to the OP- JE's show as proof of psychic communication with the 'dead'.
Here's a link to an article that expresses it all very well:
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/john_edward_hustling_the_bereaved/

"At the time I appreciated the fact that I surprised my clients, but while aware of the fact that I was deceiving them I did not see or understand the seriousness of trifling with such sacred sentimentality and the baneful result which inevitably followed." H Houdini

I have the impression that by propagating JE's act, Robin, you are actively contributing to this deception of the vulnerable.






Old thread? OK
RemieV, I have over 25 years of stage experience and a seasoned pro has no problem with stage lighting whilst on the platform. When we squint and ask the techs to change the angles of the lighting, etc. it's for other reasons.

How odd it would have occurred to you stage lighting and distance would be factors whatsoever in establishing the charlatanry of JE. I'm surprised The Amazing One didn't tell you about that himself.

The vast majority of people achieve a sense of comfort and peace by "Believing."
So even if I am wrong, the end result of believing (in most cases) is pretty darn good.
Now let' s say you are wrong, and you have convinced others mistakenly that there is no God, no eternal life...most people would agree that viewpoint offers nowhere near the same level of comfort and peace... that end result is pretty darn bad. If we both are wrong , I'd still rather be me.

 

[dafydd]

The vast majority of people achieve a sense of comfort and peace by "Believing."So even if I am wrong, the end result of believing (in most cases) is pretty darn good.
Now let' s say you are wrong, and you have convinced others mistakenly that there is no God, no eternal life...most people would agree that viewpoint offers nowhere near the same level of comfort and peace... that end result is pretty darn bad. If we both are wrong , I'd still rather be me.

No doubt you have evidence for such a sweeping statement. I live in Belgium and I don't know anyone who believes in the existence of a god.

 

[Pixel42]

The vast majority of people achieve a sense of comfort and peace by "Believing."

People give their life savings to con artists and end up living their declining years in poverty, they never complete the grieving process and move on with their lives, perhaps finding happiness with someone else (as those they've lost would almost certainly have wanted) because they erroneously believe they are still in contact with their deceased loved ones, their genuine cherished memories of those loved ones are trampled over and replaced by false memories of someone who contacts them via a medium from the afterlife just to communicate banalities like "I'm very happy here" or "you just bought a fridge" - there is plenty of harm done by scumbags like Edward.

 

[Pixel42]

If one has made up their mind that they don't want to ever isolate and identify such a phenomenon that is hardly a position to envy.

Most sceptics would be delighted to find real evidence of the paranormal, this assumption that we want to not believe is rubbish. Discovering a whole new area of science to explore would be wonderful, I'd personally be thrilled if any objective evidence of something like telepathy was ever produced. The fact remains that none has, so the null hypothesis stands.

 

[pakeha]

The vast majority of people achieve a sense of comfort and peace by "Believing."
So even if I am wrong, the end result of believing (in most cases) is pretty darn good.
Now let' s say you are wrong, and you have convinced others mistakenly that there is no God, no eternal life...most people would agree that viewpoint offers nowhere near the same level of comfort and peace... that end result is pretty darn bad. If we both are wrong , I'd still rather be me.

Once again, you've tried to divert the discussion from conning the bereaved.
Why do you conflate that with saying there is no God?

Are your reading skills really that poor or are you deliberately doing a Strawman^WP?

 

[Robin1]

Once again, you've tried to divert the discussion from conning the bereaved.
Why do you conflate that with saying there is no God?

Are your reading skills really that poor or are you deliberately doing a Strawman^WP?

So Pakeha, you do believe in God?