Jogging in Georgia while black.

[JoeMorgue]

And...it contradicts Darat claim that the McMichaels were lying about the break-ins and video and that they were chasing down what they believed was a criminal suspect and were just going after some random jogger because he was a black man in their neighborhood.

They chased him down because they thought he was a criminal based on the break-ins and the video. I do not think they are lying about that as Darat claimed.

And I don't give a flying **** since either way it was murder.

Score meaningless technicality points in another thread. One less important.

And frankly I'm getting tired of hearing about what the two murders claimed or thought. One it's an ex-cop who apparently didn't know his own state's citizens arrest laws when "I'm making a citizen arrest" is his entire pathetic excuse.

Again I spent 6 months listening to how a woman so stupid she didn't know which apartment she was in also had to have the "state of mind" she claimed to be treated as sacrosanct fact, I'm not doing it again here.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

And I don't give a flying **** since either way it was murder.

Score meaningless technicality points in another thread. One less important.

And frankly I'm getting tired of hearing about what the two murders claimed or thought. One it's an ex-cop who apparently didn't know his own state's citizens arrest laws when "I'm making a citizen arrest" is his entire pathetic excuse.

Again I spent 6 months listening to how a woman so stupid she didn't know which apartment she was in also had to have the "state of mind" she claimed to be treated as sacrosanct fact, I'm not doing it again here.

My response was to Darat in regards to the likelihood of a conviction of a federal hate crime. Nothing to do with the issues you are talking about in this post.

 

[varwoche]

I urge everyone to see the property owner (English) interviewed on Cuomo's program this evening. He lays waste to many of the excuses for the perps being foisted here.

 

[dejudge]

When I first opened the link, the audio played. It seems to be gone now. It sounded like two different voices. It sounds like the first call was likely made by the son and the second call by Dad, who didn't live there and wouldn't necessarily know the street names.

This link has the audio of both calls.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...called-911-report-black-male-running-shooting

It was not Travis McMichael [the son] who made the first 911 call at 1:08 pm.

In the Police report from Greg McMichael [the father] claimed it was he who told Travis that he just saw the guy "hauling ass" down the street.

Greg claimed at the time he was in his front yard when he saw the jogger and then went in his bedroom for his Magnum and Travis went for his shotgun.

The second 911 call at 1.14 pm appears to be made by Greg McMichael while in the back of the pick-up seconds before Travis killed the jogger.

Greg McMichael lied to 911 when he claimed he did not know the name of the street he was on.

We know Greg lied because in the police report he did specifically state that the jogger was on Satilla Drive and heading towards Buford.

The jogger was killed on the very street on which Greg McMichael lived.

Once you examine the video of the killing of Arbery then it will be seen that the McMichaels statement to the Police was openly false.

Arbery was murdered whether or not he was black or white.

 

[Bob001]

According to his lawyer, English was home in Douglas (Georgia) the day of the incident and he didn't make a 911 call. (Apparently Douglas is a little over 80 miles away from Brunswick, btw.)

The lawyer also said, though, that in months prior English had reported to the police having seen in video someone on the property in question. So, maybe he was a bit worried about trespassing - at least before trying to distance himself from this incident.

https://www.ajc.com/news/local/arbe...w-investigations-next/5aCejAF1AB23ZiDRFNHZrK/

English talked to Chris Cuomo on CNN tonight. He says he never reported any burglary or theft, he had no reason to suspect Arbery of doing anything wrong, he never showed any videos to the McMichaels, they are not friends, and he said this business of the fishing equipment is that it disappeared from his boat at some point while it was being transported to his home two hours away, not from the construction site, and he doesn't know who took it. He referred to himself as an innocent bystander, and he expressed his sympathy to the Arbery family. (Not on the web site yet.)

Cuomo talked to "Roddie" last night. He also says he doesn't know the McMichaels, and he hopes his video brings justice to the family. But his lawyer wouldn't let him talk about why he was making a video or following the truck. Cuomo didn't get much out of either of them.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/...-shooting-witness-kevin-gough-bts-cpt-vpx.cnn

 

[JoeMorgue]

My response was to Darat in regards to the likelihood of a conviction of a federal hate crime. Nothing to do with the issues you are talking about in this post.

You're splitting hairs being lying and dishonesty.

And if you're splitting hairs it's either because you're defending one side of the split hair or just meaningless pedantics. Neither is helpful in this thread.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Little bit redeeming. Shows they intended for police to handle it, at least at the beginning. Agreed, no right to do what they did afterwards, not any of it.

I don't think they intended to just let the police handle it. They wanted to go get him. Do a citizen's arrest. Be the home town heroes. Put some fear into this black guy causing trouble. Question him about the missing gun and fishing equipment. They wanted to take care of this their own way. But covers themselves by calling the cops first. But at least get in their own actions first.

Gregory is an ex-cop. He knows the cops weren't actually going to do diddly squat about a possible tresspassing.

This is tiny neighborhood on a peninsula. If they thought Arbery had a gun and could be dangerous and just wanted to make sure he got arrested, they could have set up their roadblock at the entry point to the peninsula. Barring stealing a boat or some super stealth maneuvers through the woods, there was nowhere for Arbery. It would have taken him several minutes to jog back to the entry point, and by that time the cops would have been there.

 

[Shepherd]

English talked to Chris Cuomo on CNN tonight. He says he never reported any burglary or theft, he had no reason to suspect Arbery of doing anything wrong, he never showed any videos to the McMichaels, they are not friends, and he said this business of the fishing equipment is that it disappeared from his boat at some point while it was being transported to his home two hours away, not from the construction site, and he doesn't know who took it. He referred to himself as an innocent bystander, and he expressed his sympathy to the Arbery family. (Not on the web site yet.)

Cuomo talked to "Roddie" last night. He also says he doesn't know the McMichaels, and he hopes his video brings justice to the family. But his lawyer wouldn't let him talk about why he was making a video or following the truck. Cuomo didn't get much out of either of them.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2020/...-shooting-witness-kevin-gough-bts-cpt-vpx.cnn

Did English speak of the report to the police that his lawyer said he did make?

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

It was not Travis McMichael [the son] who made the first 911 call at 1:08 pm.

In the Police report from Greg McMichael [the father] claimed it was he who told Travis that he just saw the guy "hauling ass" down the street.

Greg claimed at the time he was in his front yard when he saw the jogger and then went in his bedroom for his Magnum and Travis went for his shotgun.

The second 911 call at 1.14 pm appears to be made by Greg McMichael while in the back of the pick-up seconds before Travis killed the jogger.

Greg McMichael lied to 911 when he claimed he did not know the name of the street he was on.

We know Greg lied because in the police report he did specifically state that the jogger was on Satilla Drive and heading towards Buford.

The jogger was killed on the very street on which Greg McMichael lived.

Once you examine the video of the killing of Arbery then it will be seen that the McMichaels statement to the Police was openly false.

Arbery was murdered whether or not he was black or white.

Yeah. Greg's statement in the police report has things that are incorrect. He says they followed Arbery down Burford and attempted to cut him off. But then Arbery turned around and rant he other way. Roddy unsuccessfully tried to block him. So he jumped in the truck and the drove past him down to Holmes to cut him off.

Except the video shows that Arbery was running back down Holmes, not Burford.

He says they saw Arbery and shouted at him to stop. And when he didn't stop they pulled up beside him and then got out with the shotgun. But the video shows that they didn't pull up beside him. They parked the truck in the middle of the road and Travis got out with the shotgun.

I don't think Greg is intentionally lying. I think it is standard inaccurate witness testimony.

But I don't understand why he said he didn't know what road he was on. Maybe he was confused on whether the truck was parked on Burford or Holmes. But they were at the intersection with Satilla. They were literally a stone's throw from their house. About 300 feet. A couple doors down. If he was at the front of the truck he could have seen the house.

I think he was probably just excited and nervous and couldn't think straight.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

You're splitting hairs being lying and dishonesty.

And if you're splitting hairs it's either because you're defending one side of the split hair or just meaningless pedantics. Neither is helpful in this thread.

Darat said they chased him down simply because he was black and not because they thought he was a criminal because they lied about videos of a burglary because there were no videos of a burglary. But they didn't lie about videos of a burglary because that isn't what they said (despite numerous news reports claim such). They said there were videos of break-ins. And there were videos of "break-ins". Therefore they chased him down because they thought he was the person caught on the videos of the break-ins, not just because he was a black guy in their neighborhood. Which means a much weaker case for hate crime conviction.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Darat said they chased him down simply because he was black and not because they thought he was a criminal because they lied about videos of a burglary because there were no videos of a burglary

If you hooked up the McMichaels to a polygraph or wrapped them in Wonder Woman's Lasso or injected them with truth serum and asked them if they had targeted him for being black, they would probably tell you "No" and pass the test.

I also firmly think that the odds of them reacting exactly the same way to a white person jogging down the street in the exact same circumstances is minimal and the odds of a white person being dead via shotgun blast at the end of the alternative encounter being functionally zero.

So call it whatever you want, whether this kind of unconscious bias is "lying" or not is a meaningless semantic question.

Again these people's own opinions about their state of mind don't have to be treated as the gospel truth.

 

[Bob001]

Did English speak of the report to the police that his lawyer said he did make?

His lawyer was with him. He didn't report any crimes. He specifically said he didn't report the fishing equipment because he didn't know where it happened while the boat was being transported.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

If you hooked up the McMichaels to a polygraph or wrapped them in Wonder Woman's Lasso or injected them with truth serum and asked them if they had targeted him for being black, they would probably tell you "No" and pass the test.

I also firmly think that the odds of them reacting exactly the same way to a white person jogging down the street in the exact same circumstances is minimal and the odds of a white person being dead via shotgun blast at the end of the alternative encounter being functionally zero.

So call it whatever you want, whether this kind of unconscious bias is "lying" or not is a meaningless semantic question.

Again these people's own opinions about their state of mind don't have to be treated as the gospel truth.

I said at the very beginning of this particular discussion that I believe racial attitudes played a role in what happened. The discussion was about whether or not there is a legal case for a hate crime, not whether racism played any role.

 

[Thermal]

Because you just feel that all white people are racist without even talking to them. Couple of news blurbs and you know their inner workings.

Freaking surreal.

 

[whoanellie]

Yeah. Greg's statement in the police report has things that are incorrect. He says they followed Arbery down Burford and attempted to cut him off. But then Arbery turned around and rant he other way. Roddy unsuccessfully tried to block him. So he jumped in the truck and the drove past him down to Holmes to cut him off.



Except the video shows that Arbery was running back down Holmes, not Burford.



He says they saw Arbery and shouted at him to stop. And when he didn't stop they pulled up beside him and then got out with the shotgun. But the video shows that they didn't pull up beside him. They parked the truck in the middle of the road and Travis got out with the shotgun.



I don't think Greg is intentionally lying. I think it is standard inaccurate witness testimony.



But I don't understand why he said he didn't know what road he was on. Maybe he was confused on whether the truck was parked on Burford or Holmes. But they were at the intersection with Satilla. They were literally a stone's throw from their house. About 300 feet. A couple doors down. If he was at the front of the truck he could have seen the house.



I think he was probably just excited and nervous and couldn't think straight.

DA, do you have a location for where the shooting happened?

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Yeah. Greg's statement in the police report has things that are incorrect. He says they followed Arbery down Burford and attempted to cut him off. But then Arbery turned around and rant he other way. Roddy unsuccessfully tried to block him. So he jumped in the truck and the drove past him down to Holmes to cut him off.

Except the video shows that Arbery was running back down Holmes, not Burford.

He says they saw Arbery and shouted at him to stop. And when he didn't stop they pulled up beside him and then got out with the shotgun. But the video shows that they didn't pull up beside him. They parked the truck in the middle of the road and Travis got out with the shotgun.

I don't think Greg is intentionally lying. I think it is standard inaccurate witness testimony.

But I don't understand why he said he didn't know what road he was on. Maybe he was confused on whether the truck was parked on Burford or Holmes. But they were at the intersection with Satilla. They were literally a stone's throw from their house. About 300 feet. A couple doors down. If he was at the front of the truck he could have seen the house.

I think he was probably just excited and nervous and couldn't think straight.

You seem to be following the details of the story quote closely. Have you seen any evidence to indicate that Arbery was jogging before the incident? Because I keep hearing it repeated but it seems unclear to me whether he was or not, unless I am missing some clear evidence. It seems the earliest video we have is of him walking into the construction site and once inside, he doesn't look at all like a guy that was out jogging. of course, we know that he runs out of the place.

I know I'm the equivalent of a grand master in the KKK for even asking such a question, but I asked upthread and no-one seems to have answered.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Because you just feel that all white people are racist without even talking to them. Couple of news blurbs and you know their inner workings.

Freaking surreal.

"Two armed white guys blow away an unarmed black guy and you want to make it about race. I mean really the audacity..."

Do you ever get tired of trying to dig yourself out of the holes you always manage to somehow make out of the hills you die defending?

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

DA, do you have a location for where the shooting happened?

Intersection of Satilla Drive and Holmes Road. Its in the police report. The truck would have been parked on Holmes a little way before the stop sign, facing Satilla.

 

[Thermal]

"Two armed white guys blow away an unarmed black guy and you want to make it about race. I mean really the audacity..."

Do you ever get tired of trying to dig yourself out of the holes you always manage to somehow make out of the hills you die defending?

Dude. Serious question, no baiting or gotchas or combativeness:

I know a lot of guys who are flaming dildoes. I mean a lot. And they are equal opportunity dildoes. Proper pricks to any color skin of the rainbow, including their own. I'll bet you do too.

We know nothing about the McMichaels racial outlook. Not a word. We do know a bit about their cowboy outlook. So what convinces you that they have to be racists, apart from any other explanation? Nothing about national trends. Just what we factually know here.

 

[Shepherd]

His lawyer was with him. He didn't report any crimes. He specifically said he didn't report the fishing equipment because he didn't know where it happened while the boat was being transported.

...but did he discuss what his lawyer said he did report to the police?