Jogging in Georgia while black.

[DevilsAdvocate]

You seem to be following the details of the story quote closely. Have you seen any evidence to indicate that Arbery was jogging before the incident? Because I keep hearing it repeated but it seems unclear to me whether he was or not, unless I am missing some clear evidence. It seems the earliest video we have is of him walking into the construction site and once inside, he doesn't look at all like a guy that was out jogging. of course, we know that he runs out of the place.

I know I'm the equivalent of a grand master in the KKK for even asking such a question, but I asked upthread and no-one seems to have answered.

No. Reports are people on Facebook said he ran in the neighborhood often. Waved to people as he went by and so on. I don't do Facebook, so I don't know.

He was a football player in high school, apparently had a huge interception, so probably a safety. Someone who claims to have known him says he ran all the time and was a good runner. Could run a long way.

But I haven't seen anything that really confirms that he ran in the neighborhood often. Nor anything that suggests that he didn't.

It is a bit of a strange place to run for anyone that doesn't live in the neighborhood. The area there is bounded by a divided highway and a river. Not really anything down there but houses and a few restaurants. Not an easy place to get to on foot.

The best I can tell he did not live in that neighborhood--maybe lived about a 20 minute drive away. But I don't have anything that confirms where he was living at the time.

I tentatively consider the claim that he frequently jogged there to be probably true but unconfirmed.

I don't know that he wasn't jogging. He's wearing the proper clothes for jogging. He walked up to the house, but if he was jogging a long way he may well stop and walk for some portions.

ETA: It would be interesting to know where his car was parked.

 

[Thermal]

You seem to be following the details of the story quote closely. Have you seen any evidence to indicate that Arbery was jogging before the incident? Because I keep hearing it repeated but it seems unclear to me whether he was or not, unless I am missing some clear evidence. It seems the earliest video we have is of him walking into the construction site and once inside, he doesn't look at all like a guy that was out jogging. of course, we know that he runs out of the place.

I know I'm the equivalent of a grand master in the KKK for even asking such a question, but I asked upthread and no-one seems to have answered.

The only thing I read is that his mother said 'she believed' he was out for a jog. I saw that interview upthread. Nothing else, but that wholesome image is now a major part of the narrative.

Not that it matters, in terms of holding guns on him. Jogger, fleeing criminal trespasser, superhero off to save Gotham...whatever. Boomsticks were not in the equation.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

No. Reports are people on Facebook said he ran in the neighborhood often. Waved to people as he went by and so on. I don't do Facebook, so I don't know.

He was a football player in high school, apparently had a huge interception, so probably a safety. Someone who claims to have known him says he ran all the time and was a good runner. Could run a long way.

But I haven't seen anything that really confirms that he ran in the neighborhood often. Nor anything that suggests that he didn't.

It is a bit of a strange place to run for anyone that doesn't live in the neighborhood. The area there is bounded by a divided highway and a river. Not really anything down there but houses and a few restaurants. Not an easy place to get to on foot.

The best I can tell he did not live in that neighborhood--maybe lived about a 20 minute drive away. But I don't have anything that confirms where he was living at the time.

I tentatively consider the claim probably true but unconfirmed.

Thanks for the reply. Wikipedia says he was a linebacker on the football team during high school. I thought I came across some pretty good evidence that he was seen running in this particular neighborhood in the past, but I can't remember where. But mostly I'm curious about the day of the incident, and I find it interesting that everyone just seems to assume he was out for a run; perhaps because of the early reports of a "jogger" being shot.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Not that it matters, in terms of holding guns on him.

I agree about it probably not mattering much, but according to the title of this particular website, we're supposed to asking these kinds of questions.

Most here are interested in the legal ramifications, and I am too, but I also just have an interest in CSI and wanting to know the truth and details about what happened in cases like this.

 

[Thermal]

I agree about it probably not mattering much, but according to the title of this particular website, we're supposed to asking these kinds of questions.

Most here are interested in the legal ramifications, and I am too, but I also just have an interest in CSI and wanting to know the truth and details about what happened in cases like this.

Agreed. My personal interest is spin dissection. A lot of these stories have a narrative tacked on via Facebook or Twitter. That narrative is frequently found to be biased, IMHO. We should be questioning every word that is unevidenced.

 

[smartcooky]

I suppose it’s refreshing to discover in this thread that the event couldn’t possibly involve racism, which it seems has been magically eradicated in Georgia. In such a gun loving, racism-free place there must be ample examples of white people being hunted and murdered in a similar way to Arbery. I’m sure some will be cited.

As they say in your part of the world "Mate, you've go two shows of that happening, **** show and no show"

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Just watched both Chris Cuomo interviews.

Not much substance to the Roddy one of course, but something that both interviews had the distinct flavor of was people wanting to distance themselves from this clown show, not be seen as associated in any way with the shooters, etc.

That's understandable, especially if you look at something like the comment section under the CNN video of Roddy's interview. There are people willing to believe the wildest conspiracy theories about what role Roddy might have played, etc.

Now with regard to the Larry English interview, that was a bit more substantive of course but didn't change much. You could tell he's also seeking to distance himself, but the reality of his situation makes that a lot less desperate for him because he's simply not in the same position as Roddy is. It seems the actual facts of the situation do most of the work in distancing him, but I do think for instance he may not be as forthcoming as he could be, and is downplaying some things.

I think he and his lawyer had the conversation beforehand to not volunteer anything new, and not frame anything as possibly connected to Mr. Arbery.

It would have been nice if Chris Cuomo had asked him about the reports of copper wire being taken from the property. It would have been nice if Chris Cuomo had asked him "what led you to install the security cameras there?" and it would have been nice if he had asked him "so did anything ever go missing from that site, or was there ever any damage or vandalism?"

Regarding the fishing gear, we know that the boat was present at the site earlier on in videos which seem to show Arbery there at night. We know the cameras weren't there from the outset, and Mr. English doesn't rule out that the fishing gear was stolen from that boat while it was on site. He just downplays that possibility and emphasizes that he doesn't know when it went missing or at what stage in the journey.

I dare say that the period where it was in an unguarded job site being visited by shady character(s) in the middle of the night is probably a pretty good candidate for the window of time where the stuff was stolen.

"Two armed white guys blow away an unarmed black guy and you want to make it about race. I mean really the audacity..."

Do you ever get tired of trying to dig yourself out of the holes you always manage to somehow make out of the hills you die defending?

The realities of crime statistics mean that any time someone confronts someone engaging in criminal activity, there is a heavily disproportionate chance that the person they are confronting will be black. So take that up with the black community if you don't like how that looks.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Thanks for the reply. Wikipedia says he was a linebacker on the football team during high school. I thought I came across some pretty good evidence that he was seen running in this particular neighborhood in the past, but I can't remember where. But mostly I'm curious about the day of the incident, and I find it interesting that everyone just seems to assume he was out for a run; perhaps because of the early reports of a "jogger" being shot.

Lee Merritt is on the case so I expect some spin and false information in the news. Merritt does some good work, I support his endeavors, but his modus operandi does seem to be to flood the media with information and ideas that support his clients without much regard to the veracity of that information.

(Sorry, I had to get in at least one dig on Merritt in this thread.)

 

[lobosrul5]

Just watched both Chris Cuomo interviews.

Not much substance to the Roddy one of course, but something that both interviews had the distinct flavor of was people wanting to distance themselves from this clown show, not be seen as associated in any way with the shooters, etc.

That's understandable, especially if you look at something like the comment section under the CNN video of Roddy's interview. There are people willing to believe the wildest conspiracy theories about what role Roddy might have played, etc.

Now with regard to the Larry English interview, that was a bit more substantive of course but didn't change much. You could tell he's also seeking to distance himself, but the reality of his situation makes that a lot less desperate for him because he's simply not in the same position as Roddy is. It seems the actual facts of the situation do most of the work in distancing him, but I do think for instance he may not be as forthcoming as he could be, and is downplaying some things.

I think he and his lawyer had the conversation beforehand to not volunteer anything new, and not frame anything as possibly connected to Mr. Arbery.

It would have been nice if Chris Cuomo had asked him about the reports of copper wire being taken from the property. It would have been nice if Chris Cuomo had asked him "what led you to install the security cameras there?" and it would have been nice if he had asked him "so did anything ever go missing from that site, or was there ever any damage or vandalism?"

Regarding the fishing gear, we know that the boat was present at the site earlier on in videos which seem to show Arbery there at night. We know the cameras weren't there from the outset, and Mr. English doesn't rule out that the fishing gear was stolen from that boat while it was on site. He just downplays that possibility and emphasizes that he doesn't know when it went missing or at what stage in the journey.

I dare say that the period where it was in an unguarded job site being visited by shady character(s) in the middle of the night is probably a pretty good candidate for the window of time where the stuff was stolen.



The realities of crime statistics mean that any time someone confronts someone engaging in criminal activity, there is a heavily disproportionate chance that the person they are confronting will be black. So take that up with the black community if you don't like how that looks.

I have to ask, do you think Arbery stole $2500 worth of fishing gear and copper wiring (worth about $1 a lb) on foot, or do you think sometimes he hired a van or something???

 

[Skeptic Tank]

I have to ask, do you think Arbery stole $2500 worth of fishing gear and copper wiring (worth about $1 a lb) on foot, or do you think sometimes he hired a van or something???

I think he likely made trips where he scoped out what was there, and then maybe had a friend park somewhere near by or might have even pulled a car right up to the front of the place.

If it was at 3am and it was early in the whole saga before the cameras were there, he might have cleaned out some of the more valuable and bulky stuff then without really getting much notice. The neighborhood wasn't on alert about it yet at the stage where the more valuable / larger stuff would've been taken / prior to the cameras being put in.

Or at least that all logically makes sense to me.

 

[Thermal]

I think he likely made trips where he scoped out what was there, and then maybe had a friend park somewhere near by or might have even pulled a car right up to the front of the place.

If it was at 3am and it was early in the whole saga before the cameras were there, he might have cleaned out some of the more valuable and bulky stuff then without really getting much notice. The neighborhood wasn't on alert about it yet at the stage where the more valuable / larger stuff would've been taken / prior to the cameras being put in.

Or at least that all logically makes sense to me.

Not important, but you keep saying 3AM. I didn't see a timestamp on the stills, and in October it was dark from like 6PM to 7AM. Any reason for the 3AM thing?

 

[Garb]

None of Arbery's supposed crimes matter unless the assailants can demonstrate in any reasonable way they saw him commit them.

 

[Thermal]

None of Arbery's supposed crimes matter unless the assailants can demonstrate in any reasonable way they saw him commit them.

And even then, it still doesn't matter.

 

[dejudge]

Yes.

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/RMhNqdI.png[/qimg]

Same clothing, and we literally have an unbroken chain of:

On video inside the house
Neighbor comes out and yells something
He runs out of house and starts down street

It doesn't appear there was much time, if any, where at least one neighbor didn't have eyes on him from that point forward.

1. The video inside the house on the 23 Feb. 20 was unknown to the McMichaels when he was killed by Travis.

2. There is no evidence that the person in the surveillance video was a neighbor or yelled anything. The person could be the one who made the first 911 call.

3. Greg McMichaels claimed in his statement to the Police that he saw the jogger running on Satilla Drive toward Buford. He did not claim the jogger had stolen anything.

I think the jogger was murdered because Travis believed he stole the gun missing since the Jan 1 20.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

I think he likely made trips where he scoped out what was there, and then maybe had a friend park somewhere near by or might have even pulled a car right up to the front of the place.

If it was at 3am and it was early in the whole saga before the cameras were there, he might have cleaned out some of the more valuable and bulky stuff then without really getting much notice. The neighborhood wasn't on alert about it yet at the stage where the more valuable / larger stuff would've been taken / prior to the cameras being put in.

Or at least that all logically makes sense to me.

Sure, it all logically makes sense.

But it seems on one end of the spectrum of possible scenarios, giving all the benefit of the doubt to the McMichael whenever possible and denying it to Arbery. As a thought experiment, how far would you be willing to go in the other direction?

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Sure, it all logically makes sense.

But it seems on one end of the spectrum of possible scenarios, giving all the benefit of the doubt to the McMichael whenever possible and denying it to Arbery. As a thought experiment, how far would you be willing to go in the other direction?

I feel like others in the thread have the advocacy / benefit of the doubt stuff for Arbery pretty well covered.

May as well have someone interpreting everything in the most positive light, or nearly so, for the McMichaels.

 

[The Atheist]

And I don't give a flying **** since either way it was murder.

Unquestionably.

The question, of "was it a race-hate crime" is a red herring. It's an open & shut murder case.

Score meaningless technicality points in another thread. One less important.

Yeah, but the whole thread could stand as a monument to how some people think - 35 pages and roaring along.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

I feel like others in the thread have the advocacy / benefit of the doubt stuff for Arbery pretty well covered.

LOL. Point well taken.

But the question was how far you, personally think is plausible. It's a tough question to answer completely accurately, I know. But would you consider for example, the possibility that Arbery wasn't stealing from the neighborhood?

 

[Thermal]

Unquestionably.

The question, of "was it a race-hate crime" is a red herring. It's an open & shut murder case.



Yeah, but the whole thread could stand as a monument to how some people think - 35 pages and roaring along.

Agreed. Yet it remains the focus. Weird, yeah?

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Hate crime laws are stupid anyways.