Jogging in Georgia while black.

[Skeptic Tank]

LOL. Point well taken.

But the question was how far you, personally think is plausible. It's a tough question to answer completely accurately, I know. But would you consider for example, the possibility that Arbery wasn't stealing from the neighborhood?

Nah, him being in there that day and darting out once he became aware of being spotted / having the cops called on him confirms absolutely to me he was in there looking for stuff to take.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

The question, of "was it a race-hate crime" is a red herring. It's an open & shut murder case.

I agree that it was murder. I have said as much.

But the question of whether or not it was a hate crime is not a red herring. It is something being considered by the FBI. And that will determine whether or not the perpetrators face Federal charges (which could potentially result in more severe penalties than those resulting from a State conviction).

 

[smartcooky]

Agreed. Yet it remains the focus. Weird, yeah?

Jesus H Tapdancing Christ!! You just can't let it go can you!?

It is not "the focus". All that was reported was...

"The Justice Department said Monday that federal prosecutors are weighing possible hate crime charges in the slaying of Ahmaud Arbery, a black man gunned down after being pursued by two armed white men in a Georgia subdivision."

"We are assessing all of the evidence to determine whether federal hate crimes charges are appropriate," Justice Department spokeswoman Kerri Kupec"

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12331189


THAT IS ALL! If you think that is weird, I suggest you take it up with the Feds!

 

[Robin]

I still see the assumption by many here that killing him would be OK if he was stealing stuff.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

I still see the assumption by many here that killing him would be OK if he was stealing stuff.

I've never said it would be okay to blast the guy with a shotgun from the truck bed as you drove past him because he was lugging a spool of copper wire over his shoulder or something.

It has never been my contention that "if it can be proven he's a thief, he deserved to die on that basis"

So, what then is the point of discussing his possible thievery and other potential crimes he might've gotten up to?

1.) It demonstrates that the Benjamin Crump types and the media are yet again not learning the lesson and are pushing lies about shady characters to try to portray them as angels. Just like Trayvon, Mike Brown, etc. This is a pattern, to put it lightly. Exposing this is worthwhile.

2.) It is hugely relevant to helping establish what all parties, in particular the deceased, understood the situation to be at those final moments we all saw on the video. Lots of people were pushing narratives about him just being an oblivious, innocent jogger out there trotting along and suddenly finding himself faced with unknown parties with guns drawn, forced to assume the worst - that he was in danger of a senseless racist lynching murder!

If it can be shown that he actually understood himself to be a fleeing thief and these men to be concerned neighbors trying to get him criminally busted / having called the cops and he was intent on not being there when the cops arrived, then that puts his actions and decisions in a very different light. A far less sympathetic and stupider light.

I see all these soft lefty types posting videos about how they're "jogging with Amaud" doing their virtue signalling, trying to show that they are woke and sympathetic and ranting about how an innocent black man just out jogging should NOT be accosted and executed for no reason but his skin color!

Revealing him as a thief running from the consequences completely beclowns those people, as they richly deserve to be.

They literally got out there and virtue signaled about a common thief and a dumb thug who charged a man with a gun and got himself killed to avoid the police getting ahold of him. Lol.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Another important function of it, actually - is for the benefit of the black community

It is not healthy for young black men to be fed this narrative about how society is out to get them and they can literally be gunned down by malicious, racist white people at any moment for no reason at all. Lynching is alive and well!

What the hell kind of perverse, irresponsible, twisted, sick-minded, horrific BS is that to be pushing? Everyone who has pushed anything even remotely resembling that should be deeply ashamed of themselves.

What does that do to their feelings about their society? About whites? About themselves? What does it do to their stress levels? Nothing positive on any front.

So yet again, it's come time to debunk that narrative. Because every single time, the examples presented for it turn out to be BS.

The perfect, pure, total victims always turn out to have been up to no good, at a bare minimum. Always turn out to have taken actions which make it highly unsurprising how they met their fate.

That's important for young black men to hear because they need to know that if they keep their nose clean and don't engage in criminality, and keep their cool if ever they are mistakenly thought to be suspicious in spite of having kept clean, they will be just fine.

There are many black voices saying exactly that and they don't get much amplification. There are some good ones on YouTube for instance. Their line is always the same, don't be a criminal and you'll be fine. It's pretty well true.

Now I happen to believe that some people are just simply incapable of taking a message like that on board or restraining themselves. Some people, when confronted with certain situations, simply ARE going to start swinging fists. Self-control is not a universal trait and not distributed to universal levels among all people or all peoples.

Nonetheless, there are plenty of young black men who do have enough self control and enough intelligence for this to be a worthwhile message for them.

 

[Darat]

Ooooo, you're catching on.

I dont know what they did or didn't do to others. That's why I can't identify a motive or pattern from one instance, one way or the other. The dad was a former cop. They could just as easily have been still playing cop, regardless of the color of the alleged trespassers skin.

Do you have reason to show a pattern from this one instance? Did they let a white trespassers on the construction site go with a wink and a nod? Go on.

All I need to know to know is that in this instance skin colour was the reason they killed this person, so yes this one single instance is enough to judge them.

 

[Darat]

Well, despite your previous claims it isn't common to walk around with a shotgun on Georgia streets. If they did have a pattern of doing that I'm pretty sure there would have been complaints. So, what changed this time? I think the description they gave in the 911 call is probably the characteristic that was foremost in their minds. They didn't call to report a crime, they couldn't even tell the 911 operator what he had done wrong or why they were calling. Except that there was a black man on their road. That was important to them.

We know it was because he was black, that is how they identified their victim, not from videos, not from reports from the construction site, not from mistaken identity.

 

[Darat]

The past several pages are why I find comments like this to be so hilarious:



That totally has not been my experience here at all. Rather, there are a set of "correct views" which are seldom questioned and fanatically held in a mob-like fashion by many on the forum. all sorts of crackpot, fallacious, un-evidenced statements can be made as long as they don't contradict the dogma.

On the other hand, any post contradicting of questioning (gasp!) the hive mind, will be met with a sort of pseudo-skepticism where they will be asked to give evidence for the most trivial, obvious and accepted truths.

It may even make a good bumper sticker: ISF - Where critical thinking goes to die

You have missed out the fact we have the statements of the police to go from.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

It would have been nice if Chris Cuomo had asked him about the reports of copper wire being taken from the property. It would have been nice if Chris Cuomo had asked him "what led you to install the security cameras there?" and it would have been nice if he had asked him "so did anything ever go missing from that site, or was there ever any damage or vandalism?"

So the copper pipes which were actually PVC have magically transformed into copper wire? Does that mean it's now electrons rather than water that was pouring out of the property toward the crime scene?

 

[Darat]

...snip....

Yet another post completely without any evidence to support the many "claims" you make.

It would save you a lot of typing for when you keep repeating your irrational screeds based on your racism to just type "white=right" after all that is pretty much all that your posts always summarise to.

 

[carlitos]

I am not sure of the relevance. Even if he was a thief, is killing someone a reasonable response to theft?

Lynching_in_the_United_States^WP

 

[Garb]

I've never said it would be okay to blast the guy with a shotgun from the truck bed as you drove past him because he was lugging a spool of copper wire over his shoulder or something.

It has never been my contention that "if it can be proven he's a thief, he deserved to die on that basis"

So, what then is the point of discussing his possible thievery and other potential crimes he might've gotten up to?

1.) It demonstrates that the Benjamin Crump types and the media are yet again not learning the lesson and are pushing lies about shady characters to try to portray them as angels. Just like Trayvon, Mike Brown, etc. This is a pattern, to put it lightly. Exposing this is worthwhile.

2.) It is hugely relevant to helping establish what all parties, in particular the deceased, understood the situation to be at those final moments we all saw on the video. Lots of people were pushing narratives about him just being an oblivious, innocent jogger out there trotting along and suddenly finding himself faced with unknown parties with guns drawn, forced to assume the worst - that he was in danger of a senseless racist lynching murder!

If it can be shown that he actually understood himself to be a fleeing thief and these men to be concerned neighbors trying to get him criminally busted / having called the cops and he was intent on not being there when the cops arrived, then that puts his actions and decisions in a very different light. A far less sympathetic and stupider light.

I see all these soft lefty types posting videos about how they're "jogging with Amaud" doing their virtue signalling, trying to show that they are woke and sympathetic and ranting about how an innocent black man just out jogging should NOT be accosted and executed for no reason but his skin color!

Revealing him as a thief running from the consequences completely beclowns those people, as they richly deserve to be.

They literally got out there and virtue signaled about a common thief and a dumb thug who charged a man with a gun and got himself killed to avoid the police getting ahold of him. Lol.

You haven't demonstrated he is a thief running from consequences in this context, you have rampantly speculated that he is a thief based on whatever reason you can come up with to justify it.

And way to classify him as a dumb thug (I'm sure there isn't a race component to you using that language), instead of the actual thugs who chased down a man and shot him in the chest with a shotgun because they were suspicious of him.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I always know when someone presents themselves as a "philosopher" if you scratch the surface you'll find some Woo.

But rarely is "racism" that Woo.

That's where we've landed now? "Oh I'm just... *dramatic pause* asking questions!" with a sprinkle of the "oH I thOught thIS wAs A plACe for SKeptics!?" card all because someone wants to present "Hey maybe the black guy was at least a little bit a fault, how about we talk about that to an insane, hairsplitting degree for 35 pages and going" is something they think they can just slide under the radar as nothing but being Socratic.

The "Hey we're just talking / just asking questions" backhanded excuse comes up a lot in our racist apologist fanfiction threads and let me be 100%, unambiguously clear here.

Take that excuse. Roll it up into as small of a ball as possible and shove it, and I cannot stress this part of it enough, as far as you can right up your ass.

 

[wareyin]

No. Reports are people on Facebook said he ran in the neighborhood often. Waved to people as he went by and so on. I don't do Facebook, so I don't know.

He was a football player in high school, apparently had a huge interception, so probably a safety. Someone who claims to have known him says he ran all the time and was a good runner. Could run a long way.

But I haven't seen anything that really confirms that he ran in the neighborhood often. Nor anything that suggests that he didn't.

It is a bit of a strange place to run for anyone that doesn't live in the neighborhood. The area there is bounded by a divided highway and a river. Not really anything down there but houses and a few restaurants. Not an easy place to get to on foot.

The best I can tell he did not live in that neighborhood--maybe lived about a 20 minute drive away. But I don't have anything that confirms where he was living at the time.

I tentatively consider the claim that he frequently jogged there to be probably true but unconfirmed.

I don't know that he wasn't jogging. He's wearing the proper clothes for jogging. He walked up to the house, but if he was jogging a long way he may well stop and walk for some portions.

ETA: It would be interesting to know where his car was parked.

As a (not very good) runner, it is not at all uncommon to run in neighborhoods. There's usually less traffic, cars are going slower, and depending on the neighborhood there can be parks with water fountains and bathrooms. It's far better than running the major roads. Also, many neighborhoods are loops that make it easy to run a set distance.

 

[wareyin]

And...it contradicts Darat claim that the McMichaels were lying about the break-ins and video and that they were chasing down what they believed was a criminal suspect and were just going after some random jogger because he was a black man in their neighborhood.

They chased him down because they thought he was a criminal based on the break-ins and the video. I do not think they are lying about that as Darat claimed.

According to English, the McMichaels hadn't seen the video or known about the break-ins.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Okay seriously who here knows everyone in their neighborhood to the point that they can, on sight, recognize someone who doesn't live there?

Dude was a halfway decent runner by all account. What's a good jogging range for an in shape person, a few miles?

(G)You tell me that you have the face of everyone that lives within a few miles of you memorized?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Okay seriously who here knows everyone in their neighborhood to the point that they can, on sight, recognize someone who doesn't live there?

Dude was a halfway decent runner by all account. What's a good jogging range for an in shape person, a few miles?

(G)You tell me that you have the face of everyone that lives within a few miles of you memorized?

I think it's pretty safe to assume that in every low traffic residential area of the United States, unfamiliar people jogging through is routine.

 

[The Don]

Okay seriously who here knows everyone in their neighborhood to the point that they can, on sight, recognize someone who doesn't live there?

Dude was a halfway decent runner by all account. What's a good jogging range for an in shape person, a few miles?

(G)You tell me that you have the face of everyone that lives within a few miles of you memorized?

I'm in reasonable shape and run a fair amount. A 7 mile radius covers about 90% of my runs.

 

[carlitos]

I jog everywhere, especially when I'm in a new place. I have browsed through construction sites and used them as cover for having to pee outside.