Cont: Jogging in Georgia while black - The Trial

DevilsAdvocate said:
Roddie was found guilty on three charges of felony murder. He just wasn't found guilty on the felony murder associated with aggravated assault with a shotgun.
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Ah OK. He's guilty of murder just not murder with a shotgun which was the murder weapon :boggled: Its a bizarre legal concept to me, but I'll be shedding absolutely no tears whatsoever if he never sees another day outside of prison.
 
lobosrul5 said:
Ah OK. He's guilty of murder just not murder with a shotgun which was the murder weapon :boggled: Its a bizarre legal concept to me, but I'll be shedding absolutely no tears whatsoever if he never sees another day outside of prison.
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And that someone can be guilty of 5 counts of murder for killing one person seems a bit strange as well.
 
lobosrul5 said:
Ah OK. He's guilty of murder just not murder with a shotgun which was the murder weapon :boggled: Its a bizarre legal concept to me, but I'll be shedding absolutely no tears whatsoever if he never sees another day outside of prison.
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The felonies he committed were aggravated assault with his truck and false imprisonment, both of which were closely related to the murder of Arbery. I find it odd he would be charged for felony murder related to the aggravated assault with the shotgun, since it's obvious that's one element of the crime that he had nothing to do with.

That's how felony murder works.
 
Bob001 said:
A commentator says there is police bodycam video of the bubbas practically dancing over Arbery's body that could not be admitted at the state trial, but will likely be introduced at the federal trial as evidence of their state of mind. I hope it goes to trial and doesn't get plea-bargained.
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I think I have seen all the bodycam videos and it would be wrong to characterize them as dancing. Travis is pacing around a lot. He is obviously shook up. They aren't laughing or smiling or anything like that.
 
Nessie said:
Between this case and Kyle Rittenhouse, it is very confusing when self defence applies in the USA.
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For starters, there is no "USA" for this purpose. Each state passes its own laws regarding most criminal matters.
 
The defense has announced, informally anyway, that they will appeal but that was gonna happen.

I'm assuming they will argue that the jury was not fully aware of how dirty Arbery's toenails were, so of course they couldn't make a proper decision.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Inappropriate, un-self-controlled and surprising reactions that create problems seem to run (jog?) in that family
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Funny how you care so much for the (white) family of the murderers, but you are quite willing to smear and besmirch the (black) family whose son was murdered by them.

Personally, I have a fair bit of sympathy for the families of these three murderers - I'm sure they didn't ask for their fathers/husbands to willingly and actively participate in a lynching.

As for the three idiots themselves, it is truly telling that they honestly believed (as you do) that they were doing nothing wrong when they were chasing Ahmaud Arbery, and that they did nothing wrong when they murdered him. It must have come as quite a shock to their belief systems to suddenly realize that lynching n-words is actually a crime and punishable.

What is about to happen to them, they entirely brought upon themselves. They had five minutes of opportunities to stop what they were doing - they didn't, and now they are going to pay a heavy and fully deserved price for their racism.

I shall both enjoy and savour watching them come back to court for sentencing in 10 weeks time, wearing their new orange or hot-pink jumpsuits (I hope its the pink ones because of what that implies). I hope Travis gets life with no parole.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
The felonies he committed were aggravated assault with his truck and false imprisonment, both of which were closely related to the murder of Arbery. I find it odd he would be charged for felony murder related to the aggravated assault with the shotgun, since it's obvious that's one element of the crime that he had nothing to do with.

That's how felony murder works.
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Yup, that is exactly how it works

You are the getaway driver for a bank robbery - your two accomplices shoot and kill a client and a security guard during the robbery. All three of you are charged with felony murder... even though you personally were not armed and didn't shoot the weapon that killed the victims - you were a participant in the felony that lead to the killings, so you can also be held responsible.
 
smartcooky said:
Funny how you care so much for the (white) family of the murderers, but you are quite willing to smear and besmirch the (black) family whose son was murdered by them.

Personally, I have a fair bit of sympathy for the families of these three murderers - I'm sure they didn't ask for their fathers/husbands to willingly and actively participate in a lynching.

As for the three idiots themselves, it is truly telling that they honestly believed (as you do) that they were doing nothing wrong when they were chasing Ahmaud Arbery, and that they did nothing wrong when they murdered him. It must have come as quite a shock to their belief systems to suddenly realize that lynching n-words is actually a crime and punishable.

What is about to happen to them, they entirely brought upon themselves. They had five minutes of opportunities to stop what they were doing - they didn't, and now they are going to pay a heavy and fully deserved price for their racism.
I shall both enjoy and savour watching them come back to court for sentencing in 10 weeks time, wearing their new orange or hot-pink jumpsuits (I hope its the pink ones because of what that implies). I hope Travis gets life with no parole.
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What is your basis for saying racism was involved in this case?

They were proactive guys who looked out for the neighborhood, and had confronted whites before too.

Is it just... racism automatically in your mind because they were white and this particular burglar was black? Is that literally the only requirement?
 
lobosrul5 said:
Ah OK. He's guilty of murder just not murder with a shotgun which was the murder weapon :boggled: Its a bizarre legal concept to me, but I'll be shedding absolutely no tears whatsoever if he never sees another day outside of prison.
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He was found guilty of aggravated assault with a truck, false imprisonment, and criminal attempt to commit false imprisonment. Those are felonies. If a person commits a felony and that felony plays a substantial part in the death of a person, that's called felony murder. Her is the Georgia law:

A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.
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A person does not have to actually kills someone to be guilty of felony murder. For example, someone robs a bank. The cops show up and there is a gun fight. The cops miss and hit a bystander killing that person. The robber is guilty of felony murder because his felony actions in robbing the bank resulted in someone getting killed.
 
ponderingturtle said:
And that someone can be guilty of 5 counts of murder for killing one person seems a bit strange as well.
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That's just legal stuff. Someone could potentially get one felony overturned on appeal, which would also overturn the felony murder associated with that felony, but they would still be guilty of the other felony murders. It is just covering all the bases because the jury could find them guilty of multiple felonies and find that one felony caused the death but another felony did not. The court needs to know which felonies are tied to a felony murder charge in case any of the felonies get reversed, so they do it as separate charges.
 
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DevilsAdvocate said:
He was found guilty of aggravated assault with a truck, false imprisonment, and criminal attempt to commit false imprisonment. Those are felonies. If a person commits a felony and that felony plays a substantial part in the death of a person, that's called felony murder. Her is the Georgia law:



A person does not have to actually kills someone to be guilty of felony murder. For example, someone robs a bank. The cops show up and there is a gun fight. The cops miss and hit a bystander killing that person. The robber is guilty of felony murder because his felony actions in robbing the bank resulted in someone getting killed.
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I actually did know that. Felony murder has been misused to the point that I think it should be abandoned, or at the very least it needs a narrower definition. See: https://medium.com/blood-sweat-care...r-their-friends-death-is-a-crime-7f1458673b2b and https://theappeal.org/the-point/states-should-abolish-felony-murder-laws/
 
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Skeptic Tank said:
What is your basis for saying racism was involved in this case?

They were proactive guys who looked out for the neighborhood, and had confronted whites before too.

Is it just... racism automatically in your mind because they were white and this particular burglar was black? Is that literally the only requirement?
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Umm...no, they had *not* confronted whites before in *this same manner* --that is the point.

Honestly, in 2021 if you have a confederate flag on your license plate you are pretty much proclaiming to the world "I am a racist and proud of it"
 
Skeptic Tank said:
What is your basis for saying racism was involved in this case?

They were proactive guys who looked out for the neighborhood, and had confronted whites before too.
.....
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In his first call to 911, Greg McMichael's "emergency" was “there's a Black male, running down the street.” That's a big clue about his state of mind.
“There is a Black male, running down the street,” McMichael says frantically. The call operator interrupts, asking him to identify where in the Satilla Shores neighborhood they are.

“I don’t know what street we’re on,” the elder McMichael replies. He’s then heard shouting at Arbery: “Stop right there, damn it! Stop!”
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https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-911-calls-jury_n_618c6a21e4b04e5bdfcb883e

And, once again, they had no legal right to confront anybody about anything, let alone at shotgun point. Most people in most places would call the cops if they saw something suspicious and let the professionals handle it.
 
Bob001 said:
In his first call to 911, Greg McMichael's "emergency" was “there's a Black male, running down the street.” That's a big clue about his state of mind.
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He was former law enforcement. He knew that one of the first things dispatch will ask is for a description of the suspect, and "black male" is standard language for that. This is weird grasping.


Bob001 said:
And, once again, they had no legal right to confront anybody about anything, let alone at shotgun point. Most people in most places would call the cops if they saw something suspicious and let the professionals handle it.
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They absolutely had a legal right to confront "anybody about anything" - there is no law against one citizen confronting another.

Are you under the impression that if I see a guy downtown on the street and I am convinced (rightly or wrongly) that he's the guy who grabbed my sister's ass at a club 3 months ago, and I confront him angrily and accuse him of that, that I have broken some law?

People can legally confront others.

You're not breaking a law if you approach someone walking through your neighborhood and ask them what they're doing there, either.

I won't even go into the citizen's arrest angle, I'll just leave it at that because the way you framed what you just said, you're making it sound like no citizen can legally confront and question another. False.
 
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