Is Islam an evil religion?

[Foster Zygote]

I will look it up.

Please do so.

 

[A'isha]

I will look it up.

Great

In the mean time, what books do you read? You seem to rely solely on the interent.

I've named and provided Amazon links to several already. In fact, I suggested you read Dr. Ali's book yet again just above.

Why do you think an institution that validates pedophelia should be met with tolerance?

What "institution" are you talking about? Islam isn't an "institution" any more than Christianity or atheism is an "institution".

 

[Mister Agenda]

Why do you think an institution that validates pedophelia should be met with tolerance?

You mean the one where God himself impregnates a 14-year-old girl? I kinda think we're stuck with it, there are around 2 billion of them, I think the most we can hope for is reform to bring it in line with modernity. I think a lot of progress has been made, there's a lot of diversity of thought in that religion, but you can still find leaders who want to, for instance, make homosexuality illegal (like the governor of Texas) or institute the death penalty for it (like in Uganda). Don't get me started on that radical in Utah.

Let's face it, we can't not tolerate them for what they believe or think, only for what they do, and when they break the law they should suffer the consequences we've instituted for that kind of thing. That's it. Tolerance doesn't mean agreement or support:

1. Allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

2. Accept or endure (someone or something unpleasant or disliked) with forbearance

We don't tolerate pedophilia. Not tolerating an institution (I assume that by 'institution' you actually mean 'religion')that can be interpreted as supporting pedophilia would require 'not allowing the existence of' religions followed by about 4 billion people altogether. Maybe we should consider another approach besides intolerance, Bill.

 

[FireGarden]

The guy in Norway attacked members of his own country who supported immigration laws that he disagreed with. He targetted his own countrymen and woman and their childrean. It would be kind of like if Al Qaeda had attacked the Saudis instead of New York City.

The fact that you are using the Norway bombings as an indication that there are christian terrorists who are just as evil as other terrorists is a weak argument and tells me you are willing to use anything to support Islam. I wonder why that is.

So tell me why.

This in no way follows from what anyone has posted. Please pretend to be reading our posts. These quotes, made since you posted the above, indicate just how bad you are at paying attention to this whole conversation.

I've answered this specific question at least a dozen times by now. This was the most recent one, said less than a week ago in this very thread:

When you try to accuse Islam of being uniquely evil because Muslims submit themselves to Allah, when in fact the whole idea of total submission to God's will is so common in Christianity (particularly the evangelical brand that's so popular in the US) that you can't swing a dead argument without running into Christian after Christian talking about it.

Yeah. I mean, it's not like submitting to God's will is talked about outside of Islam at all.

No, they aren't. I believe I already addressed the issue of underage marriages in the world with you.

In short, there's no correlation between underage marriages in a country and Muslim population of a country.

 

[Cleon]

Why do you think an institution that validates pedophelia should be met with tolerance?

Because Catholics have the same freedom of religion as the rest of us.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Please do so.

In high school I was taught that the South wanted support from the Catholics and the story I was told was that Rome promised them support in the form of supplies and arms but backed out.

I am not 100% sure if Charles Chiniquy was in Lincoln's cabnet but Chiniquy claims to have had a long friendship with Lincoln in his book, "Fifty Years in the Church of Rome". I bought and read this book years ago.

Here is What Chiniquy quotes Lincoln saying:
“This war would never have been possible without the sinister influence of the Jesuits. We owe it to Popery that we now see our land reddened with the blood of her noblest sons. Though there were great differences of opinion between the South and North, on the question of slavery, neither Jeff Davis nor any one of the leading men of the Confederacy would have dared to attack the North, had they not relied on the promise of the Jesuits, that, under the mask of Democracy, the money and the arms of the Roman Catholics, even the arms of France, were at their disposal if they would attack us.” Charles Chiniquy, Fifty Years in the Church of Rome, The Wickliffe Press, Protestant Truth Society, Wickliffe Avenue, 104 Hendon Lane, Finchley, London, N3., 1885, p. 388.

Go to the library and get the book.

If they do not have it (suspicious?), ask for it.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Because Catholics have the same freedom of religion as the rest of us.

But they are being fought for what they have done.

I just saw on CSPAN this weekend that in Ireland they claim that they did not do enough.

Freedom from religion does not mean a religious institution is free from legal action against it. That has been done often against the Catholics.

 

[Bill Thompson]

This in no way follows from what anyone has posted. Please pretend to be reading our posts. These quotes, made since you posted the above, indicate just how bad you are at paying attention to this whole conversation.

Huh?

Sorry. I was not paying attention.

Anyway, so why would you support an institution that allows and even demands pedophelia rape like Islam does in many countries such as Iran? Just to to Mermi TV and watch all the videos directly from Islamic countries where Muslim Scholars defend the practice on national talk shows.

And why should I pay attention to people who are avoiding the really important things, like wife beating, child rape and homophobia which is a large and official part of Islam?

 

[A'isha]

In high school I was taught that the South wanted support from the Catholics and the story I was told was that Rome promised them support in the form of supplies and arms but backed out.

Seriously?

I am not 100% sure if Charles Chiniquy was in Lincoln's cabnet but Chiniquy claims to have had a long friendship with Lincoln in his book, "Fifty Years in the Church of Rome". I bought and read this book years ago.

Charles Chiniquy was not a member of Lincoln's cabinet. Charles Chiniquy never got anywhere near Lincoln's cabinet. Charles Chiniquy was not a longtime friend of Abraham Lincoln.

Charles Chiniquy was a Canadian-born former priest and virulent anti-Catholic conspiracy theorist who once hired Lincoln during Lincoln's early career as a lawyer, to defend him on a libel charge. That's it.

Thirty years later, after a long career of ranting about Catholicism and its dangers, Chinquy wrote the book you mention, filled with such anti-Catholic nonsense as the claim that Jesuit assassins killed Lincoln, that the Catholic church was plotting to take over the US via Irish and German immigrants (and had caused the Civil War and was the secret power behind the Confederacy), and that Catholics are secretly pagans who worship the Virgin Mary. As part of his claims, he concocted all sort of falsehoods, including the Lincoln quote you cite (which is not only at odds with Lincoln's views as expressed in his other writings, it also appears solely in Chinquy's book). Today, Chinquy and his anti-Catholic conspiracy theories are ignored and forgotten by everyone except for Jack Chick, who quotes liberally from Chinquy's lies in his own anti-Catholic tracts (among the many anti-Catholic lies of others).

Foster Zygote already pointed out to you just a few posts above that Chinquy's quote is a fake, and Lincoln said no such thing.

 

[A'isha]

Let me ask you something, Bill. Do you also think that Judaism is a pedophilic religion, and that Jews are either pedophiles or tacitly support pedophilia?

 

[Bill Thompson]

Why are you defending Islam?

The Catholics do not come out and say "we defend pedophelia" no matter how much they do it.

But the Islamic Scholars whom Muslims look up to actually do go out on national television in several countries and insist that the behavior and example of Muhammed must be copied on this issue.

Why are you asking me this or that and trying to deflect this issue?

You don't make any sense.

You post little facts that do not mean anything.

So is your argument that Chiniquy was not a reliable source of Lincoln -- his quote does fit in with what I had leanred about the civil war -- suddenly like waving a magic wand, Islam is ok?

You don't make any sense.

 

[FireGarden]

I am not 100% sure if Charles Chiniquy was in Lincoln's cabnet but Chiniquy claims to have had a long friendship with Lincoln in his book, "Fifty Years in the Church of Rome". I bought and read this book years ago.

Here is What Chiniquy quotes Lincoln saying:
“This war would never have been possible without the sinister influence of the Jesuits. We owe it to Popery that we now see our land reddened with the blood of her noblest sons. Though there were great differences of opinion between the South and North, on the question of slavery, neither Jeff Davis nor any one of the leading men of the Confederacy would have dared to attack the North, had they not relied on the promise of the Jesuits, that, under the mask of Democracy, the money and the arms of the Roman Catholics, even the arms of France, were at their disposal if they would attack us.” Charles Chiniquy, Fifty Years in the Church of Rome, The Wickliffe Press, Protestant Truth Society, Wickliffe Avenue, 104 Hendon Lane, Finchley, London, N3., 1885, p. 388.

Go to the library and get the book.

If they do not have it (suspicious?), ask for it.

So Foster Zygote guessed it:

You are falling for a very old lie.

"These words, entitled 'Lincoln's Warning,' have circulated among Catholic-haters in this country since the late 19th century, but there is nothing of Lincoln in them. They were written by Charles Chiniquy, a Canadian-born priest who settled in Kankakee County, Illinois, in 1851, as head of a Catholic colony, and then abandoned his faith, began spewing out hatred for his former religion, and invented anti-Catholic utterances for Lincoln as part of his anti-Catholic campaign.

"But Chiniquy did know Lincoln, though not very well. In 1856, Lincoln and Leonard Swett handled a case for Chiniquy in Springfield, Illinois, and years later, after Lincoln had become famous, the recusant priest falsely claimed he had been an intimate friend of Honest Abe and that the latter had secretly confided to him his fear and hatred of Catholicism. The false quote appeared in Chiniquy's Fifty Years in the Church of Rome (Chicago, 1886), a lengthy and bitter attack on the Roman Catholic Church.

From They Never Said It: A Book of Fake Quotes, Misquotes, & Misleading Attributions, by Paul F. Boller Jr. & John George (Oxford University Press, 1989), pages 79-80,
"Lincoln of course had nothing of the bigot in him, and the kind of views Chiniquy attributed to him were entirely foreign to his thinking. In June 1844, Lincoln wrote a resolution condemning the intolerance of the Know Nothing movement: 'The guarantee of the right of conscience as found in the Constitution, is most sacred and inviolable, and one that belongs no less to the Catholic, than to the Protestant.' And in a much-quoted letter to his friend Joshua Speed on August 24, 1855, he expressed his dismay over the bigoted views of the Know Nothings and warned that if they triumphed the Declaration of Independence would be corrupted into reading: 'All men are created equal, except negroes and foreigners and Catholics.'"

 

[A'isha]

Why are you defending Islam?

Is that a yes, or a no, Bill?

 

[FireGarden]

Huh?

Sorry. I was not paying attention.

Anyway, so why would you support an institution that allows and even demands pedophelia rape like Islam does in many countries such as Iran? Just to to Mermi TV and watch all the videos directly from Islamic countries where Muslim Scholars defend the practice on national talk shows.

And why should I pay attention to people who are avoiding the really important things, like wife beating, child rape and homophobia which is a large and official part of Islam?

This still doesn't follow from what I said. You keep asking questions and not acknowledging anyone's answers.

You are wrong and the questions you ask are not based on fact -- as you would know if you bothered to read the links to ANTPogo's answers which have scrolled past your screen way to many times.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Let me ask you something, Bill. Do you also think that Judaism is a pedophilic religion, and that Jews are either pedophiles or tacitly support pedophilia?

I don't know.

You do not make any sense.

 

[bikerdruid]

Most Muslim Scolars support pedophile rape. 'nuf said.

Why do you think an institution that validates pedophelia should be met with tolerance?

bil...this is clearly a lie.
there is no way you can prove these outlandish statements.

 

[Bill Thompson]

This still doesn't follow from what I said. You keep asking questions and not acknowledging anyone's answers.

You are wrong and the questions you ask are not based on fact -- as you would know if you bothered to read the links to ANTPogo's answers which have scrolled past your screen way to many times.

And why should I pay attention to people who are avoiding the really important things, like wife beating, child rape and homophobia which is a large and official part of Islam?

Islam is not excusable just because most Muslims do not know things about it and how it is practiced in the Mid East.

If most knew, most would not be Muslims. So they should be told. That is what it is all about.

Same with Scientology. Most Scieintologist don't know about things like Operation Snow White. If they did, they would not be Scientologists.

 

[Bill Thompson]

bil...this is clearly a lie.
there is no way you can prove these outlandish statements.

Mermi TV has proof.

Direct from the Mid East.

Are you too lazy to look or too afraid?
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mermi+tv+child+rape&aq=f



That is one. There are even better ones.

And here, this is also what you are supporting and defending:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gays+hung+in+iran&aq=0

WWHMD What Would Harvey Milk Do?

 

[A'isha]

Islam is not excusable just because most Muslims do not know things about it and how it is practiced in the Mid East.

If most knew, most would not be Muslims. So they should be told. That is what it is all about.

Muslims know far, far, far more about Islam than you ever will, Bill. There's not a single thing you can teach them about their own faith.

 

[A'isha]

I don't know.

You do not make any sense.

http://www.jewfaq.org/marriage.htm

How old does a girl have to be under Jewish religious law before she can be married? How many years difference is there between the minimum age of girls at marriage in Jewish religious law, and the minimum age of girls at marriage under the "Islamic law" you say is based on the Bukhari age of Ai'sha?

Do you consider that age difference significant enough to transform pedophilia to a perfectly acceptable marriage today? Are Jews who accept the validity of that as an aspect of their sacred religious law to be pedophiles, even if they personally are totally against preteen marriages and would never practice it themselves or condone its practice by others?