Is Islam an evil religion?

[Robrob]

Unlike you, I have been studying this stuff.

It is not difficult to know more about Islam than most Muslims.

Obviously it's easy to know more about any subject than a lay person if you study it specifically. The vast majority of Christians have never read the entire New Testament, much less the OT.

Translation in their own language is not available and it is even a sin to question Islam.

Reaaaaaally, so that English language copy I have in my bookcase is a figment of my imagination?

Three seconds searching Amazon and I found German, Spanish, Farsi, Dari and Malay editions. Was there a particular language you had in mind?

 

[Leumas]

Islam did not have any roots as an abrahamic religion. It was contrived and fabricated centuries later and borrowed from the existing religions, just like the Mormon Cult did.

Your persistence in your ignorance is bewildering….this has been addressed many times before by numerous members and I personally have posted verses from the Quran that show you to be wrong.

Yet you persist in repeating the above statement despite being repeatedly called upon it with evidence and reason.

Does this sound like you are capable of reasoning?

Repeating your benighted statements over and over will not make them right EVER.

WRONG Mormons are big on Abraham -- google "book of Abraham" it is holy scripture to the Mormons just like the Book of Mormon.

The fact that Mormonism is a SECT of Christianity is claimed by the Mormons themselves…whether their religion is false or not is immaterial…Christianity itself is a false religion that is built upon a blasphemous usurpation of Judaism in the first place.

So when Mormonism mentions Abraham they are doing so as a sect of Christianity and just as the New Testament also mentions Abraham 65 times.

By being a sect of Christianity they are not considered as a THIRD Abrahamic religion. Otherwise we would have to say that there are over 1500 abrahamic religions since there are over 1500 sects of Christianity, not to mention the sects of Judaism and Islam.

[the following numbers are exact]

Notice that Abraham is mentioned in the Quran (85) more times than in the NT (65).

In the Torah Abraham/Abram is mentioned 215 times. If you consider that the Torah is 5 books while the Quran is just one then each book in the Torah has 43 mentions of Abraham which is less than the Quran.

In the Quran Muhammad is mentioned 48 times.

On the other hand Moses is mentioned 189 times, Abraham 85 times, Isaac 18 times, Israel 47 times, Jacob 25 times, Jesus 32 times.

If anything the Quran seems to be a book about Moses.

If one were to judge by the total number of Abraham+Isaac+Jacob/Israel+Moses mentions (396) in comparison to 48 mentions of Muhammad, then one can conclude that the Quran is more about Judaism than it is about Islam.

BikerDruid was presenting Islam as a respectable religion because he was repeating the BS made by Western Media talking heads that it is one of the three great top Abrahamic blah blah blah blah....

But it isn't. The Koran is a contrived book of silliness just as the Book of Mormon is.

And the OT or the NT are not books of silliness? Careful Bill….your BIAS is showing quite clearly.

And that must be why the Methodist's and the Lutherians insist that among every sect that calls themselves "Christian", the Mormons have to take a class and even be re-baptized before joining their church. Dude, if you don't know what you are talking about, don't make a post. It is annoying that I have to be reduced to a teacher of the elementary. Mormons might call themselves Christians. But there are big differences in what they believe and what Christians believe.

Prejudice and bigotry in ALL Christian Sects against other sects abound and have been the cause of WARS and EXTIRPATION among Christians since the Emergence of Christianity.

Coptic Christianity requires re-baptisms from any Christian convert. So do the Geek Orthodox and in fact many of the Protestants PREFER you to be re-baptized by them despite being baptized by an “acceptable” denomination.

Christian SECTARIANISM has been the cause of KILLINGS not just demands of re-baptisms.

Some Protestant churches consider Catholicism as the work of the DEVIL and that the Pope is the Devil.

 

[Robrob]

Some Protestant churches consider Catholicism as the work of the DEVIL and that the Pope is the Devil.

After the Norway shooter turned out to be Catholic, you should have heard the outrage on the CNN blogs.

BTW, a few more seconds of research showed this: "Though translation of the Qur'an is theologically problematic in Islam, it has been translated into most African, Asian and European languages."

 

[Bill Thompson]

After the Norway shooter turned out to be Catholic, you should have heard the outrage on the CNN blogs.

That is a Post Hoc logical fallacy.
"It happed thus it was caused by"
Rachael Maddow must have wet her pants, "We Christian haters have been waiting our whole life for something just like this"
I mean, after Gabby Giffords was shot in the head, Rachael Maddow, in her typical misplaced glee stressed that we all "connect the dots" and that the shooter was a Republican Christian somehow and that somehow made him go on a shooting spree.

BTW, a few more seconds of research showed this: "Though translation of the Qur'an is theologically problematic in Islam, it has been translated into most African, Asian and European languages."

Read the Apostates of Islam web site testimonials. In Iran, they memorize the Arabic which is just meaningless -- albiet magic -- sounds to them.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Your persistence in your ignorance is bewildering….this has been addressed many times before by numerous members and I personally have posted verses from the Quran that show you to be wrong.

You don't get it. It is not from Abraham because Mohammed just made the whole damn thing up. And he got a whole lot of stuff historically wrong.

It is just like the Mormon hog wash. Joe Smith made the whole thing up as well.

You do know that Allah was the name of the moon god or goddess. Mohammed just mixed a whole lot of stuff into one big pot. That does not make it a religion from Abraham.

I have read the quran. Yeah, I know what it says. It is just a hodge podge of retold stories but retold in a wierd way.

Do you get it now? Do I need to explain it further, man?

 

[Bill Thompson]

The fact that Mormonism is a SECT of Christianity is claimed by the Mormons themselves…

Alone.

The fact that Mormonism is a SECT of Christianity is claimed by the Mormons themselves alone.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Bill, I'm friend with a number of Muslims and ex-Muslims. I don't mind criticizing Islam but I do disagree with the broad brush strokes.

Like what?

Re read in the context of what it was i was responding to.

Originally Posted by bikerdruid
and you know more than most of the world's muslims....

Unlike you, I have been studying this stuff.

It is not difficult to know more about Islam than most Muslims. Translation in their own language is not available and it is even a sin to question Islam.

OK I should have said "sometimes ranslation in their own language is not available. And according to the Amazon.com book review of Ibn Waraq's book which explained the origins of the Quran, it is even a sin to question Islam in many Muslim countiies"

I was not precise because BikerDruid was only looking for little holes to penetrate is little personal insults and I was getting annoyed.

 

[truethat]

As a former Muslim, who is raising my kids as Muslim for the sake of not having them be enticed by it when they hit young adulthood, I would honestly say I do think this religion is as close to evil as you can get. Mind you, I think pretty much all religion is evil.

I do have a sort of admiration for faith itself. But at the same time I've been amused over the years to watch people who really don't know too much about Islam be sort of suckered into thinking it's like Sufism or something.

Islam at the core is brutal and violent. Most religions are on the edges. Islam is at the core.

Of course this is my opinion only and I will apologize for insulting anyone. I do understand that a personal faith or belief is not necessarily reflected in religious beliefs. However I put it to this test, I've never seen a single protest by Muslims against suicide attacks against other people.

Not one. Please load up the youtube vids if I am wrong.

This scares me.

 

[Leumas]

You don't get it. It is not from Abraham because Mohammed just made the whole damn thing up. And he got a whole lot of stuff historically wrong.

It is just like the Mormon hog wash. Joe Smith made the whole thing up as well.

So Moses and Jesus and Paul did not make it all up too?

Abraham never existed. The entire Bible is made up....so how is that different from the made up Quran or Book of Mormons?


Come on..... admit it....I dare you to utter what you really think.... is the Bible a made up book or a real book of God??????

You do know that Allah was the name of the moon god or goddess. Mohammed just mixed a whole lot of stuff into one big pot. That does not make it a religion from Abraham.

I have read the quran. Yeah, I know what it says. It is just a hodge podge of retold stories but retold in a wierd way.

Again you persevere in your ignorance. Again we have already and repeatedly discussed this "moon god" BS before. And by you saying that it might be a "goddess" shows an UTTER IGNORANCE of the Quran and thus making your statement that you have read it a false one.

If you have even the SLIGHTEST knowledge about Islam you would know that it is a very Masculine religion and thus impossible for it to be of a "goddess". You yourself have pointed out how misogynist it is when you were trying to malign it. You are very good at contradicting yourself.

Regarding the moon part.... you yourself have stated ( erroneously) that Muhammad claimed that he split the moon. So how can a book about a MOON GOD claim to have split the MOON with a sword as you wrongly claim that Muhammad did?

Do you see how illogical your thinking is?

AGAIN…. I remind you that many people have told you about the ETYMOLOGY of the word Allah. I even did so in this posting.

Here is a wiki link for the same.

I have also explained to you that Allah is the word for god used in Arabic versions of the Bible and is the word used by Arabic speaking Christians and Jews in prayers and references to God.

But of course none of this will make a difference to you and in a few weeks you will repeat your nonsense all over again.


Repeating nonsense over and over does not ever turn it into sense.

Do you get it now? Do I need to explain it further, man?

No..... I get it loud and clear..... you are incapable of any logical reasoning whatsoever. So it is totally an exercise in FUTILITY to try to reason with you.

You keep repeating your benighted misconceptions despite being repeatedly corrected about them by numerous people who know what they are talking about unlike you do.


Repeating nonsense over and over does not ever turn it into sense.

 

[Leumas]

Alone.

The fact that Mormonism is a SECT of Christianity is claimed by the Mormons themselves alone.

That is all that is needed.

Christians alone claim YHWH is part of a TRIO of gods.

So if you are going to negate that Mormonism is a sect of Christianity because only they claim it then where would that leave Christianity in relationship to YHWH according to your illogic?

Why is it that you REFUTE the claim of a religion about itself? Are you an authority or God?

If you refuse to allow the Moslims their claim to YHWH why do you not do the same to Christianity which in fact is a much more tenuous claim due to all the blasphemous aspects?

 

[Leumas]

[the following numbers are exact]

This is an error.... I meant to say NOT exact.

 

[FireGarden]

I went back and had a look at the bible and found about 24 verses that one could say are anti-gay.

Thanks, Bill. I'll take that as an admission your previous estimate of 1 was wrong.

As for the rest, you ignore what I say about it.
Yes, Muslims believe that the Quran is the word of God. Just as I believe that Hamlet is the word of Shakespeare. But, as I've said before, verse 3:7 (of the Quran, not Hamlet) says that some of the verses of the Quran are allegorical. It doesn't tell us which. Added to that, there is the overwhelming evidence of the Quran being interpreted in various ways -- by people who, though they disagree on how to interpret the Quran, all agree that the Quran is the word of God. So your point has been answered.

Most major christian sects do not interpet the bible literally. The catholcis are the most major one and they do not. Pope John Paul II said so. GOogle it.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-..._gc.r_pw.&fp=daab3958d5b3ea9&biw=1600&bih=796

And, of those who don't take the Bible literally, what is their view of homosexuality? It's varied, I know, as the BBC article I linked earlier shows. But how about the Pope, since you brought him up:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...humanity-needs-saving-from-homosexuality.html

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that, while homosexuality is not sinful, homosexual acts are.

It opposes gay marriage and, in October, one leading Vatican official described homosexuality as "a deviation, an irregularity, a wound".

In his address to the Curia, the Vatican's central administration, the Pope himself described behaviour beyond traditional heterosexual relations as "a destruction of God's work".

I don't think a lack of taking it literally is entirely the cure.

Would someone like to ask Bill to quote the ayat in the Qur'an that specify the punishment for homosexuality? You know, something direct and unambiguous, comparable with Leviticus 20:13, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them"?

And if I recall correctly, Bill has cited the Skeptic's Annotated pages before when talking about the Qur'an.

The Skeptic's Annotated Bible lists 24 verses in the Bible condemning homosexuality.

The Skeptic's Annotated Qur'an lists only four, all of them repetitions of the Lot story.

That's a good point, since Bill has moved to arguing about how many verses call for a death penalty.

 

[FireGarden]

So how does Lincoln have anything to do with Islam being an evil religion or not?

If memory serves, you raised the matter. So you tell us.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Lincoln most likey hated the Catholics like all Union politicians. Ask any history department at any major university. I have called 5 so far and so far it is 5 out of 5 in favor of my position.

Which university history departments did you call?

Edited to add: If you'll just give me the numbers you called I'd be happy to call them and confirm your claim.

 

[zooterkin]

However I put it to this test, I've never seen a single protest by Muslims against suicide attacks against other people.

Have a look here, then, quite a few to choose from.

Not one. Please load up the youtube vids if I am wrong.

Not everything is on youtube.

This scares me.

Me too, but for different reasons.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Your persistence in your ignorance is bewildering….this has been addressed many times before by numerous members and I personally have posted verses from the Quran that show you to be wrong.

This is the silliest bunch of nonsense I have ever seen. BikerDruid was trying to say that Islam has as much legitimacy as Judaism and Christianity because the Qu ran mentions Abraham. But the problem with this statement is the fact that the Bible is a collection of stories passed down by word of mouth. THe Koran, as i was saying, is like the Book of Mormon and was a book of contrived fabricated stupidity written by one guy who misunderstood the stories in the Bible and retold them in a jumbled mass of misrepresenting.

Your quoting the Koran here to show some meaning or purpose is pointless.

You put a lot of work into trying to make some point but you are using a book that is a lie.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Which university history departments did you call?

Edited to add: If you'll just give me the numbers you called I'd be happy to call them and confirm your claim.

You are a lazy dude, you know that? I have posted the contact information for the University of Washigton already, gave phone numbers and addresses and everything.

 

[Bill Thompson]

If memory serves, you raised the matter. So you tell us.

Wrong. Other people have decided to make an issue out of this. I think you have.

 

[Foster Zygote]

You are a lazy dude, you know that? I have posted the contact information for the University of Washigton already, gave phone numbers and addresses and everything.

And I missed it. Could you at least link to the post where you gave this information?

 

[kmortis]

Thread closed. We may get around to cleaning it up, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that. It's pretty far gone.

As always, do not start a thread to restart the arguments here. Also, do not import arguments from this thread into others.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: kmortis