I must be COMPLETELY crazy, but..

[Oliver]

Skeptic, you miss the fact that usually people don't want to "inherit" debts. So I doubt that many people in Jordan really want to deal with the occupied territories lousy infrastructure, political disequilibrium, horrible economy and so on.

So would Israel financially support those issues to the point that Jordan would agree on such a proposal in the name of peace?

Honestly, I tend to be skeptical about that one, no matter what side of the proposal I'm looking at.

Skeptic?

 

[Thunder]

It isn't being suggested that all Palestinians be moved to Jordan, but Jordan be extended to include a lot of the west bank.

No, Marc39 is actually suggesting that the Palestinians be relocated to Jordan. I guess you are not familiar with his fascist and racist posts.

 

[Marc39]

No, Marc39 is actually suggesting that the Palestinians be relocated to Jordan. I guess you are not familiar with his fascist and racist posts.

I am capable of speaking for myself. I don't give a fig if the Pals move to Jordan in toto, partially or not at all. As long as, whatever their choice, they leave Jews in Judea and Samaria the hell alone.

 

[Thunder]

I am capable of speaking for myself. I don't give a fig if the Pals move to Jordan in toto, partially or not at all. As long as, whatever their choice, they leave Jews in Judea and Samaria the hell alone.

Judaea and Samaria. I love how the West Bank suddenly became ancient Samaria and Judaea only after 1967.

And as far as I am concerned, the settlers can stay in their crappy homes on stolen land in the West bank (Palestine) as long as they become citizens of Palestine. Otherwise, they need to get the #### out!!!!!

 

[Marc39]

Judaea and Samaria. I love how the West Bank suddenly became ancient Samaria and Judaea only after 1967.

I love how the PLO Charter was modified in 1968 specifically to indicate Judea and Samaria suddenly became important to them. LOL. True.

 

[Thunder]

I love how the PLO Charter was modified in 1968 specifically to indicate Judea and Samaria suddenly became important to them. LOL. True.

you are aware that "Judaea" includes much of present-day central Israel....right?

 

[ddt]

Just a tip...The so-called Palestinians and the Jordanians are the same. They are all Arabs. This is pretty basic stuff.

Former PLO leader Zuhair Mohsen...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuheir_Mohsen

You forgot the rest from that wiki page:

While this contravened the PLO charter, which affirms the existence of a Palestinian people with national rights, it was in line with al-Sa'iqa's Syrian-Baathist ideology.

And leader? From the wiki page on As-Sa'iqa:

As new Secretary-General (after Mahmud al-Ma'ayta, who had recently succeeded Yusuf Zu'ayyin), al-Assad chose Zuhayr Muhsin, a Palestinian Ba'thist who had come to Syria as a refugee from Jordan. He was repeatedly promoted by Syria as a candidate for the post as Chairman of the PLO, to replace Arafat, but never gained support from other factions.

So much for "PLO leader". You meant, of course, to say "Assad puppet".

 

[Marc39]

You forgot the rest from that wiki page:


And leader? From the wiki page on As-Sa'iqa:


So much for "PLO leader". You meant, of course, to say "Assad puppet".

Meaningless.

 

[Eddie Dane]

Skeptic,

I must say that I really like it.

Lots of people are persuing the merging of the Palestinians and the Israelis so the Palestinians can return to the geographical area that they inhabited before 1948, but this is impractical because the Pals and Israelis are at each others throats.

Jordan has been a reasonably decent and strong state, with stronger ties with Israel than they let on, i suspect. They only got their butt kicked in '67 because the Egyptians sold them out.

This could give statehood and freedom of movement to the Palestinians, stability to Israel.

The main obstacles: Hamas (they will become to Jordan what Hezbollah is to Lebanon, Fatah ('Hey, we're the Palestinian elite! We should run this place.') and the orthodox Jews who like to continue the creeping expansion.

Oh, and Jerusalem and Hebron. What do you think we should do with those?

Once we hammer these issues out, we should email Obama.

 

[Eddie Dane]

Judaea and Samaria. I love how the West Bank suddenly became ancient Samaria and Judaea only after 1967.

And as far as I am concerned, the settlers can stay in their crappy homes on stolen land in the West bank (Palestine) as long as they become citizens of Palestine. Otherwise, they need to get the #### out!!!!!

A simple note from the IDF will be far cheaper and far less cumbersome than the $ 2 billion Gaza pull back.

I was thinking something along the lines of:

We pull out next Thursday.
You can stay or go, it's your choice.

If you stay you can pick up your Jordanian passport on Monday.

kind regards,

The IDF

 

[Marc39]

Lots of people are persuing the merging of the Palestinians and the Israelis so the Palestinians can return to the geographical area that they inhabited before 1948, but this is impractical because the Pals and Israelis are at each others throats.

You are in historical error. Virtually 100% of the so-called Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank were born in...Gaza and the West Bank. Most were not even born before 1948.

This could give statehood and freedom of movement to the Palestinians, stability to Israel.

4 million [more] hostile Arabs living in close proximity to Jews would have the complete opposite effect. Israel is a sovereign state. Discussion of dismantling a sovereign state is highly inappropriate.

 

[Eddie Dane]

You are in historical error. Virtually 100% of the so-called Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank were born in...Gaza and the West Bank. Most were not even born before 1948.



4 million [more] hostile Arabs living in close proximity to Jews would have the complete opposite effect. Israel is a sovereign state. Discussion of dismantling a sovereign state is highly inappropriate.

You misunderstood me.

I think merging the Palestinian territories and Jordan is a good idea.
For practical reasons Israel gets to keep the biggest settlements.
Pretty much what Skeptic suggested. I never suggested dismantling Israel.

 

[Marc39]

You misunderstood me.

I think merging the Palestinian territories and Jordan is a good idea.
For practical reasons Israel gets to keep the biggest settlements.
Pretty much what Skeptic suggested. I never suggested dismantling Israel.

Sorry, my bad. The problem with merging Palestinian territory with Jordan comes down to this...

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1018617.html

 

[Skeptic]

Look, Eddie Dane: I've said it before. If Israelies could be sure a Palestinian state would in fact be peaceful, there would be peace tomorrow. But Israel, for good reason, doesn't believe the PLO and Hamas, who lead the Palestinians, want the state to be anything else than a platform for the total eradication of Israel, per the "stage plan", the Palestinian and Hamas charter, everything that happened since the Oslo "peace" accords, the withdrawal from Gaza, etc., etc., etc.

So the way to go is to bypass the PLO and Hamas and go to the body of the Palestinians, who quite rightly say they don't want to live under military occupation. What's more, most of the Israelies (messianic settlers aside) do not want to have to continue to establish this military occupation -- if only they could really get peace in return.

Since the body of the Palestinians is in Jordan and the culture, life, and families in Jordan IS Palestinian, I am all for "wiping Jordan off the map" -- but ONLY off the map -- in such a way that there is no occupation and peace.

What to do about the PLO and Hamas leadership? As far as I'm concerned, and also as far as many Palestinians are concerned (only they don't admit it) the currupt, Jew-hating terrorist thugs that make them up, from the holocaust-denying "I was honored to fire the first bullet at the Jews" Abbas to the holocaust-denying Hamas leadership, should be stood up against the wall and shot. It would be no loss for humanity -- or for the Palestinians in particular.

Such fantasy aside, what if you just ignore them and cut off their international aid -- replacing it with aid given to Jordan (renamed Palestine)? Considering the fact that most international aid to the Palestinian authority now goes to (a) buying weapons to kill Jews, (b) swiss bank accounts, giving it to the Palestinian state in Jordan and the WB, which has far superior public administration than that gang of thugs and thieves in the PA, would be a good start.

As for Jerusalem and Hebron: if they're in the Palestinian state, and the state is peaceful, what's the problem? Jews today travel to Aman in Jordan and to the (supposed) location of Moses' grave in Jordan. Nobody thinks that because such places have ties to Jewish history then Israel must liberate them with blood and fire. Same with Hebron and Betlehem and Jerusalem.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Look, Eddie Dane: I've said it before. If Israelies could be sure a Palestinian state would in fact be peaceful, there would be peace tomorrow. But Israel, for good reason, doesn't believe the PLO and Hamas, who lead the Palestinians, want the state to be anything else than a platform for the total eradication of Israel, per the "stage plan", the Palestinian and Hamas charter, everything that happened since the Oslo "peace" accords, the withdrawal from Gaza, etc., etc., etc.

So the way to go is to bypass the PLO and Hamas and go to the body of the Palestinians, who quite rightly say they don't want to live under military occupation. What's more, most of the Israelies (messianic settlers aside) do not want to have to continue to establish this military occupation -- if only they could really get peace in return.

Since the body of the Palestinians is in Jordan and the culture, life, and families in Jordan IS Palestinian, I am all for "wiping Jordan off the map" -- but ONLY off the map -- in such a way that there is no occupation and peace.

What to do about the PLO and Hamas leadership? As far as I'm concerned, and also as far as many Palestinians are concerned (only they don't admit it) the currupt, Jew-hating terrorist thugs that make them up, from the holocaust-denying "I was honored to fire the first bullet at the Jews" Abbas to the holocaust-denying Hamas leadership, should be stood up against the wall and shot. It would be no loss for humanity -- or for the Palestinians in particular.

Such fantasy aside, what if you just ignore them and cut off their international aid -- replacing it with aid given to Jordan (renamed Palestine)? Considering the fact that most international aid to the Palestinian authority now goes to (a) buying weapons to kill Jews, (b) swiss bank accounts, giving it to the Palestinian state in Jordan and the WB, which has far superior public administration than that gang of thugs and thieves in the PA, would be a good start.

As for Jerusalem and Hebron: if they're in the Palestinian state, and the state is peaceful, what's the problem? Jews today travel to Aman in Jordan and to the (supposed) location of Moses' grave in Jordan. Nobody thinks that because such places have ties to Jewish history then Israel must liberate them with blood and fire. Same with Hebron and Betlehem and Jerusalem.

As long as you continue to claim Israel has one nothing wrong and is not racist in it's expansionist agenda of taking 'the lot' your bias will handicap any solutions you put forward.

 

[Marc39]

As long as you continue to claim Israel has one nothing wrong and is not racist in it's expansionist agenda of taking 'the lot' your bias will handicap any solutions you put forward.

The 22 members of the Arab League encompass over 8 million sq. miles, twice the size of the US.

Israel is just 8 thousand sq miles, approx. the size of Vermont.

Who, again, has an "expansionist agenda of taking the lot"?

 

[The Fool]

The 22 members of the Arab League encompass over 8 million sq. miles, twice the size of the US.

Israel is just 8 thousand sq miles, approx. the size of Vermont.

Who, again, has an "expansionist agenda of taking the lot"?

check your arithmetic

Edited by Tricky: 

Familiarization of username removed

. 8 million? I think you have awarded them a few million extra square miles....where are you going to get it from?

You claim to have a degree from Princeton yet don't have a clue how big the Arab League nations are?

Hmmmmm....

Please do not use a name other than the member's forum name unless it is clear that you have their approval to do so. This is the case even if you are simply using a familiarization or common nickname related to the member's forum name.

Thank you.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky

 

[Thunder]

You claim to have a degree from Princeton yet don't have a clue how big the Arab League nations are?

Hmmmmm....

I think its another lie. He wasn't even aware of the specifics of the Oslo Accords.

 

[The Fool]

check your arithmetic

Edited by Tricky: 

Familiarization of username removed

. 8 million? I think you have awarded them a few million extra square miles....where are you going to get it from?

You claim to have a degree from Princeton yet don't have a clue how big the Arab League nations are?

Hmmmmm....

Please do not use a name other than the member's forum name unless it is clear that you have their approval to do so. This is the case even if you are simply using a familiarization or common nickname related to the member's forum name.

Thank you.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky

Ok tricky, no problems. Apologies to marc39 for using his name that he freely posts on other forums when advertising his website that also uses his name.
could you possibly edit marc39's posts where he refers to me as "fool" my username is "the fool"

unless you don't want to waste time on a sarcastic pedantic request ...its all good

 

[Thunder]

The 22 members of the Arab League encompass over 8 million sq. miles, twice the size of the US.

Israel is just 8 thousand sq miles, approx. the size of Vermont.

Who, again, has an "expansionist agenda of taking the lot"?

is it not your belief that Israel is legally entitled to the West Bank AND Jordan?

that is pretty expansionist..if you ask me.