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I must be COMPLETELY crazy, but..

Skeptic, you miss the fact that usually people don't want to "inherit" debts. So I doubt that many people in Jordan really want to deal with the occupied territories lousy infrastructure, political disequilibrium, horrible economy and so on.

So would Israel financially support those issues to the point that Jordan would agree on such a proposal in the name of peace?

Honestly, I tend to be skeptical about that one, no matter what side of the proposal I'm looking at.
 
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Flap around squeal and whine all you like "skeptic".... looks like a solution is going to have to be imposed on you. I always thought this was going to be necessary as you go ballistic whenever anything that comes along that looks like it may formalize real and final borders for Israel.

Just a tip...the people that live over on the other side of that river (the Jordan) are not the same and are not a simple plug pin compatible swapout with the people that live in the region known as the "west bank"...This is pretty basic stuff.
 
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*snip*
Just a tip...the people that live over on the other side of that river (the Jordan) are not the same and are not a simple plug pin compatible swapout with the people that live in the region known as the "west bank"...This is pretty basic stuff.

That also applies to the people of Gaza in contrast to those Arabs within the areas known as "West Bank" -- they have no connection to each other.
In fact, the people of Jericho have no connection to those in Jenin, those in Hebron have nothing in common with the residents of Tulkarem.

The essential problem, that has plagued the so-called 'Palestinians' from the get-go, is their lack of National Unity. They simply did not have any historically, and truth be told, they still don't. The Jihadists (Arafat included) tried to inculcate it, and up to a point, have succeeded. However, the elephant in the room is the distinct incompatibility between the secularists and the Islamists throughout their society, and this is expressed by the inability of the Palestinian National Authority (a FATAH organ) to reconcile with the HAMAS.

I hope they overcome this deep divide, for their sake, but I hold little hope, based on past experiences.
 
was known as "Palestine" for hundreds of years (until the 1920s),

Jordan was known as Palestine...for hundreds of years?

BS. Major BS. The borders of historic Palestine never went too far east from the Jordan river. The borders of Jordan go all the way to Iraq. These lands were NEVER considered part of historic Palestine.

Sorry Charlie, try again.
 
Jordan was known as Palestine...for hundreds of years?

BS. Major BS. The borders of historic Palestine never went too far east from the Jordan river. The borders of Jordan go all the way to Iraq. These lands were NEVER considered part of historic Palestine.

Sorry Charlie, try again.

So what was Palestine is inside Jordan?
 
So what was Palestine is inside Jordan?

wrong. the borders of historic Palestine are within Israel, Jordan, and the West Bank.

also keep in mind the southern Negev was never considered part of historic Palestine...as it is a desert. and the borders of historic Palestine stretched a good 20 miles east of the Jordan river.

Any logical and rational person understands that Israel will only get 5% or so of the West Bank in ANY peace deal.
 
wrong. the borders of historic Palestine are within Israel, Jordan, and the West Bank.

also keep in mind the southern Negev was never considered part of historic Palestine...as it is a desert. and the borders of historic Palestine stretched a good 20 miles east of the Jordan river.

Any logical and rational person understands that Israel will only get 5% or so of the West Bank in ANY peace deal.

Defensive much? My question was not wrong because it was a question.

And 5% or so is what Skeptic called for...
 
Any logical and rational person understands that Israel will only get 5% or so of the West Bank in ANY peace deal.

That's actually more or less what I've said would be reasonable, but the annoying "any logical and rational person understands..." is total nonsense. What it really means is, "*I* think 5% is what Israel will get and only people who agree with me are logical and rational" or "I am the arbiter of absolute truth about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict". Rather high-handed from someone who, with all probability, can't name the third letter in the Arabic alphabeth without looking it up.
 
Rather high-handed from someone who, with all probability, can't name the third letter in the Arabic alphabeth without looking it up.

Honestly, why the #### should I care about the Arabic alphabet.???

Learn to spell.
 
Jordan was known as Palestine...for hundreds of years?

BS. Major BS. The borders of historic Palestine never went too far east from the Jordan river. The borders of Jordan go all the way to Iraq. These lands were NEVER considered part of historic Palestine.

Sorry Charlie, try again.

"Following World War I and the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, the UK received a mandate to govern much of the Middle East. Britain separated out a semi-autonomous region of Transjordan from Palestine in the early 1920s, and the area gained its independence in 1946; it adopted the name of Jordan in 1950."

Source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/jo.html

Try again bub
 
"Following World War I and the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, the UK received a mandate to govern much of the Middle East. Britain separated out a semi-autonomous region of Transjordan from Palestine in the early 1920s, and the area gained its independence in 1946; it adopted the name of Jordan in 1950."

Source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/jo.html

Try again bub

since this is only your 42nd post here at JREF, and you are clearly quite young, I will be gentle with you in my reply.

The original borders set up for the Palestine Mandate after the conquest of the Ottoman Empire was very very large..and very very arbitrary. It included the Negev desert (not part of historic Palestine) and what we now call Jordan..stretching a good thousand miles east....to the arbitrary borders set up for what we now call Iraq.

Historic Palestine, is roughly from the Med. Sea to the Jordan river (and maybe about 20 miles east of that...and from the Litani river in Lebanon to about the latitude of Gaza City.

According to the Jewish Encyclopedia published between 1901-1906:
Palestine extends, from 31° to 33° 20′ N. latitude. Its southwest point (at Raphia = Tell Rifaḥ, southwest of Gaza) is about 34° 15′ E. longitude, and its northwest point (mouth of the Liṭani) is at 35° 15′ E. longitude, while the course of the Jordan reaches 35° 35′ to the east. The west-Jordan country has, consequently, a length of about 150 English miles from north to south, and a breadth of about 23 miles at the north and 80 miles at the south. The area of this region, as measured by the surveyors of the English Palestine Exploration Fund, is about 6,040 square miles. The east-Jordan district is now being surveyed by the German Palästina-Verein, and although the work is not yet completed, its area may be estimated at 4,000 square miles. This entire region, as stated above, was not occupied exclusively by the Israelites, for the plain along the coast in the south belonged to the Philistines, and that in the north to the Phenicians, while in the east-Jordan country the Israelitic possessions never extended farther than the Arnon (Wadi al-Mujib) in the south, nor did the Israelites ever settle in the most northerly and easterly portions of the plain of Bashan. To-day the number of inhabitants does not exceed 650,000. Palestine, and especially the Israelitic state, covered, therefore, a very small area, approximating that of the state of Vermont. [4]


Remember, the borders used by the Allies after WW1 were not based on history or culture, but by how best to divide up the spoils for the victorious nations.

;)

​
 
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"Following World War I and the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, the UK received a mandate to govern much of the Middle East. Britain separated out a semi-autonomous region of Transjordan from Palestine in the early 1920s, and the area gained its independence in 1946; it adopted the name of Jordan in 1950."

Source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/jo.html

Try again bub

It doesn't fit his preconceptions, so it just HAS to be false, I guess.
 
It doesn't fit his preconceptions, so it just HAS to be false, I guess.

His post is correct..in the sense that the arbitrary colony called "Palestine" was split in 1926 to become Palestine and Jordan. But this gigantic area was never really Palestine. That was my point. And even after the 1926 division, "Palestine" wasn't really historic Palestine either.

But you knew that.

:p
 
since this is only your 42nd post here at JREF, and you are clearly quite young, I will be gentle with you in my reply.

<snip>

Why thank you, haven't been called young for some 20 years or so, brings back some memories.


As to the rest your definition "historic palestine" loses all meaning, which part of history should we talk about, originally the Philistine states were roughly were the Gaza strip is today as illustrated by this map http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Levant_830.svg
or this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:First_century_palestine.gif

Here's how it was under the Byzantines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Israel_Byzantine_5c.jpg

The Caliphates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Medieval_Arab_Palestine.jpg

During the Ottomans there was no Palestine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:OttomanEmpireIn1683.png

And then came the Brits
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BritishMandatePalestine1920.png

So which of the historic Palestines are you talking about?
 
So which of the historic Palestines are you talking about?

The one mentioned by the Encyclopedia Judaica..or the Jewish Encyclopedia.

are you suggesting that historic Palestine includes.....the Negev???

includes Petra?

includes Amman?

lololol

here are some good maps of historic Palestine:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/rumsey/Size2/D0114/0594066.jpg

http://www.hipkiss.org/data/maps/pictorial_bible_maps_1856_palestine_4595x5254-600_tn.png

http://www.davidrumsey.com/rumsey/Size2/D0006/00062057.jpg

http://www.hipkiss.org/data/maps/br...stine-at-the-time-of-christ_1594_2303_600.jpg

http://www.hipkiss.org/data/maps/br...y_holy-bible_1899_palestine_1594_2303_600.jpg

anyone with eyeballs can see that the GREAT majority of Jordan ain't part of it.
 
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The one mentioned by the Encyclopedia Judaica..or the Jewish Encyclopedia.

are you suggesting that historic Palestine includes.....the Negev???

includes Petra?

includes Amman?

lololol
Why that one?Because it fits with your belief?It's you who talk about "Historic Palestine"

As far as I can tell you are talking about the borders of Palaestina Prima and Palaestina Secunda during the Byzantine period while igoring Palaestina Tertia.That period was about 300 years long and ended some 1400 years ago.
I'm sorry but I can't find any other period that fits your definition.
Well no offical one at any rate.

EDIT:Sorry I forgot to answer you, I consider that until (Trans-)Jordan declared independance it was a part of Palestine.
 
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Why that one? Because it fits with your belief? It's you who talk about "Historic Palestine"
.

yes. I believe the maps of the above links. I didn't make them.

it doesn't take a Geography major who knows how to use a transit and a level, to know which lands were and were NOT part of Historic Palestine.
 
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