How the Shanksville Crater Was Made

[yankee451]

What’s not normal is your defense for the killing of thousands of civilians from many countries that began in New York on 9/11 and not expect self-defense blowback. What’s abnormal and is despicable is calling the murdered passengers on flight 93 “the fictional dead”.

EVEN IF, 9/11 occurred exactly as we were told, to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people over the actions of 19 individuals who were already dead is barbaric and unacceptable behavior for a so-called "civilized" people.

 

[BasqueArch]

EVEN IF, 9/11 occurred exactly as we were told, to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people over the actions of 19 individuals who were already dead is barbaric and unacceptable behavior for a so-called "civilized" people.

Look, take this over to the politics section.
Missiles did not cause those gashes or craters. Flight 93 crashed there.

 

[yankee451]

Again, say this 100 times to yourself: Northwest flight 710: entire fuselage under soil. ALL OF IT.

About 15 minutes later, witnesses reported seeing the airplane break into two pieces with the right wing falling as one piece and the remainder of the craft plunging to earth near Cannelton in southern Indiana.[1]

So much wreckage rained over a wide area, as the plane came apart in the air, that it was first believed that two planes had collided. However, the Federal Aviation Agency and the State Police said that all the pieces they could find were from one plane — Northwest's Lockheed Electra Flight 710. A wing and two engines of the wrecked turboprop were found about five miles (8 km) from the place where the plane's fuselage hit. Almost nothing was left of the craft. Hours after the crash, a column of blue-gray smoke still rose from the crater, about 25 ft (7.6 m) deep and 40 ft (12 m) wide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Orient_Airlines_Flight_710

Once again, nothing like flight 93

 

[Mudcat]

Once again, nothing like flight 93

And once again, not exactly like flight 1771. But just because flight 710 isn't exactly like flight 1771 or flight 93 doesn't make any of those flights a conspiracy.

 

[threadworm]

The debris does not match any of the other crash examples.

The smoke column indicates an ordinance blast, not a jet crash.

Anyone who insists a 757 can disappear into the ground is either lying or a fool, but it's up to you to stop believing them, so this September 11th, try something different. Try the truth.

Man you really already have the movie trailer written for this don't you?

Here's what happens when something explodes:

You get a big boom and a lot of heat and smoke and all kinds of burny stuff. That big ball of smoke and fire rises, because it is all hot and burny. That rising ball of smoke and burny stuff drags up smoke and dust from the ground.

Burny stuff still on the ground carries on supplying smoke for the rising column.

This is pretty much how any surface explosion produces a mushroomy type cloud, whether it is from a whole pile of jet fuel or a missile, so your suggestion that it can only be from a missile is wrong.

Your other problem is that you claim the explosion was from underground. So, where did the source of all the smoke come from?

 

[twinstead]

EVEN IF, 9/11 occurred exactly as we were told, to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people over the actions of 19 individuals who were already dead is barbaric and unacceptable behavior for a so-called "civilized" people.

This thread is not for debating what followed 9-11. Believe it or not, you'll find a lot of people here who agree with you about this, but STILL think your idea that the crater in Shanksville was caused by missiles idiotic.

The politics subforum is that way ===============================>

 

[Mudcat]

Your other problem is that you claim the explosion was from underground. So, where did the source of all the smoke come from?

[Shatner]Must... Resist. Must not violate... The Membership... Agreement!!![/Shatner]

 

[332nd]

The smoke column indicates an ordinance blast, not a jet crash.

What do you base this on?

Anyone who insists a 757 can disappear into the ground is either lying or a fool, but it's up to you to stop believing them, so this September 11th, try something different. Try the truth.

Since debris was found up to 8 miles away, we can see that you are lying.

 

[chris lz]

Once again, nothing like flight 93

Earlier you wrote "Anyone who insists a 757 can disappear into the ground"

Here's a quote from Rod Serling's book, The Electra Story: "the one-hundred-foot fuselage itself had disappeared. In the crater, buried twelve feet under this smoking devil's cauldron, was what was left of Northwest Airlines Flight 710."

Do you accept that NW 710's fuselage disappeared under the soil? Yes or no please.

 

[Mark F]

EVEN IF, 9/11 occurred exactly as we were told, to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people over the actions of 19 individuals who were already dead is barbaric and unacceptable behavior for a so-called "civilized" people.

This may be the first semi-rational statement you have made.

I get it. I understand why many people who object to certain government actions or policies - the various wars in the Middle East for example - become attached to conspiracy theories, ranging from JFK to 9/11. A healthy distrust of government is a good thing. But why do you have to wrap your criticism of government action in these bizarre and clearly false technical claims? All it does is ruin any credibility your legitimate concerns may have.

 

[yankee451]

Earlier you wrote "Anyone who insists a 757 can disappear into the ground"

Here's a quote from Rod Serling's book, The Electra Story: "the one-hundred-foot fuselage itself had disappeared. In the crater, buried twelve feet under this smoking devil's cauldron, was what was left of Northwest Airlines Flight 710."

Do you accept that NW 710's fuselage disappeared under the soil? Yes or no please.

Was it the whole plane faling as one piece and disappearing into the ground?

No, no it wasn't.

Anyone who insists a 757 can disappear into the ground is either lying or a fool, but it's up to you to stop believing them.

 

[chris lz]

Was it the whole plane faling as one piece and disappearing into the ground?

No, no it wasn't.

Anyone who insists a 757 can disappear into the ground is either lying or a fool, but it's up to you to stop believing them.

Let me get this straight. It's perfectly scientific for an entire fuselage to bury itself, but not OK for the wings to go along with it? What science do you base that on? Please be specific. Don't give us personal intuition, such as "you must be a fool." Give the math to prove it.

Thanks.

 

[chris lz]

So far, your case amounts to "if you believe this, you are a fool."

I thought you were going to present a physical model, or physics principles or equations. All you have is "you are a fool"?

Is that it?

 

[yankee451]

This may be the first semi-rational statement you have made.

I get it. I understand why many people who object to certain government actions or policies - the various wars in the Middle East for example - become attached to conspiracy theories, ranging from JFK to 9/11. A healthy distrust of government is a good thing. But why do you have to wrap your criticism of government action in these bizarre and clearly false technical claims? All it does is ruin any credibility your legitimate concerns may have.

You don't know me or my motivations. Attacking the messenger - thanks for your opinions.

 

[Reactor drone]

Was it the whole plane faling as one piece and disappearing into the ground?

No, no it wasn't.

Anyone who insists a 757 can disappear into the ground is either lying or a fool, but it's up to you to stop believing them.

Sorry, is this the five minute argument or the full half hour?

 

[yankee451]

Sorry, is this the five minute argument or the full half hour?

This isn't an argument, it's just a contradiction.

 

[Slowvehicle]

The debris does not match any of the other crash examples.

The smoke column indicates an ordinance blast, not a jet crash.

Anyone who insists a 757 can disappear into the ground is either lying or a fool, but it's up to you to stop believing them, so this September 11th, try something different. Try the truth.

"Try the truth" is a good idea. Follow:

Crossing out objective, real-world, practical evidence does not make it go away. That is, in fact, the behaviour have been charitably calling "hand-waving", but is, in fact, dishonest. Telling lies about what was found does not mean it was not found. "Try the truth".

The crash does not match any other crashes, although some are similar. Demonstrate one other example of an intact airliner hitting dry, loamy ground at a steep angle, at high speeds; then (and only then) can you make useful comparisons about the crash sites. "Try the truth".

An airliner-shaped hole full of debris from a shattered and scattered airliner, including physical evidence of not just the existence of the passengers, but their identities; the FDR (yeah, go ahead and cross it out--the FDR was found in the crater, and data from the FDR substantiated the RADAR track, and the FDA witnesses; crossing it out, lying about it, will not make it go away); and pieces of a jet liner identified not only by type but by parts numbers (multiple parts number--no anomalies); is a fairly clear indication that it is the site of an airliner crashing. "Try the truth".

No evidence of missiles (missles, BTW, that were not available at the time, and do not even now have the pinpoint accuracy your fantasy would require), or pyrex beads. "Try the truth".

JFG: How many "ordnance blasts" have you witnessed? How many jet fuel fireballs have you witnessed? What other experience do you have with explosions of significant size?

 

[yankee451]

So far, your case amounts to "if you believe this, you are a fool."

I thought you were going to present a physical model, or physics principles or equations. All you have is "you are a fool"?

Is that it?

Did you demand the same evidence for the claim a 757 disappeared into the ground?

 

[yankee451]

JFG: How many "ordnance blasts" have you witnessed? How many jet fuel fireballs have you witnessed? What other experience do you have with explosions of significant size?

How many jets disappearing into the ground have you witnessed?

 

[NoahFence]

Once again, nothing like flight 93

Really now?
How about you tell the class what happened to flight 93 then.