How the Shanksville Crater Was Made

[Slowvehicle]

What else is everyone thinking?

...I don't pretend to speak for anyone else, but it is clear to me that you have not yet even begun to deal with the real-world, objective, empirical evidence.

To say nothing of the problem of a photoshopped image of craters made by tiny projectiles at high velocities demonstrating anything about the Shanksville crash site.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Anyone willing to answer this question or are personal attacks and sarcasm all I can expect?

Is the crater better explained by two pyrex spheres striking from the inside out?

[qimg]http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/inside-out.png[/qimg]

Or missiles from the outside in?

[qimg]http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/detonated_undetonated.png[/qimg]

By a 757 at 480 knots, 40° nose-down, inverted.

 

[Mark F]

Simpler explanation's may make you sleep better at night, but they don't address the evidence. No other high speed jet crash made a plane-shaped gash, and the craters that ARE left by real jet crashes are surrounded by the parts of the aircraft.

The evidence doesn't support a plane crash. The only thing going for that story is the rough length of the gash.

So your whole premise is based on the idea that because no Boeing 757 has ever crashed nearly vertically into soft fill soil at nearly supersonic speeds that it is therefore impossible?

Right.

OK then, so using your logic - since no two JASSM missiles have ever converged from opposite directions onto the exact same point leaving gashes in the ground when their normal attack profile is a steep dive, we have no emperical examples for the kind of damage you describe. Therefore your missile theory has no basis.

Game, set and match.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Besides the fact a jet can't do it and missiles can, you're not missing much.

...a 757, tracked to the site by RADAR, found in the crater (including the FDR, which verified the RADAR track), as opposed to missiles that were not available at the time, allegedly flown in ways that are controverted by the terrain, no trace of which has ever beenfound; your evidence for the alleged behavior of which is a photoshopped, contrived image of pyrex spheres at extreme velocity, superimposed in a manner that itself falsifies the alleged image...

You're missing a lot.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Simpler explanation's may make you sleep better at night, but they don't address the evidence. No other high speed jet crash made a plane-shaped gash, and the craters that ARE left by real jet crashes are surrounded by the parts of the aircraft.

The evidence doesn't support a plane crash. The only thing going for that story is the rough length of the gash.

...and all the other empirical, real-world practical evidence you choose to ignore, hand-wave away, or about which you choose to distort the truth...

 

[yankee451]

...and all the other empirical, real-world practical evidence you choose to ignore, hand-wave away, or about which you choose to distort the truth...

We're discussing the crater.

You're hanging your hat on a 124 foot gash that looks nothing like other jet crashes. How's that for hand-waiving?

 

[threadworm]

We're discussing the crater.

You're hanging your hat on a 124 foot gash that looks nothing like other jet crashes. How's that for hand-waiving?

So it was a jet crash?

Excellent. Progress.

Now all you have to do is get your head around the fact that this was nothing like other jet crashes and you can rejoin normal society.

 

[yankee451]

So it was a jet crash?

Excellent. Progress.

Now all you have to do is get your head around the fact that this was nothing like other jet crashes and you can rejoin normal society.

The society that sends missiles into an empty field and sheds crocodile tears for the fictional dead while killing in their name isn't normal.

 

[Liam]

The society that sends missiles into an empty field and sheds crocodile tears for the fictional dead while killing in their name isn't normal.

Seriously mate, if this isn't all just a wind-up, you need to get help.

 

[Ape of Good Hope]

The society that sends missiles into an empty field and sheds crocodile tears for the fictional dead while killing in their name isn't normal.

...or real.

 

[Slowvehicle]

We're discussing the crater.

You're hanging your hat on a 124 foot gash that looks nothing like other jet crashes. How's that for hand-waiving?

...and you pretend that by producing fraudulent evidence of what the crater wouldn't look like if it were formed by two giant pyrex spheres at hypervelocities, you do not need to deal with any of the other evidence?

The FDR?

The debris?

The RADAR track?

The DNA?

The smoke column?

...and so on...

 

[Slowvehicle]

The society that sends missiles into an empty field and sheds crocodile tears for the fictional dead while killing in their name isn't normal.

...which society exists, if at all, only in your head...
Perfervid imagination is no substitute for evidence.

Now, about all the practical, real-world, empirical evidence you keep ignoring, or dancing around...

 

[Mark F]

We're discussing the crater.

You're hanging your hat on a 124 foot gash that looks nothing like other jet crashes. How's that for hand-waiving?

Or for that matter a JASSM missile impact,...

Still waiting for you to provide proof the JASSM missile has created an impact crater like that before (or since, I don't care either way).

 

[yankee451]

Or for that matter a JASSM missile impact,...

We've got a couple dozen pages of people telling me how worthless my evidence is, yet you say yours is no better.

 

[yankee451]

...and you pretend that by producing fraudulent evidence of what the crater wouldn't look like if it were formed by two giant pyrex spheres at hypervelocities, you do not need to deal with any of the other evidence?

The FDR?
The debris?

The RADAR track?

The DNA?

The smoke column?

...and so on...

The debris does not match any of the other crash examples.

The smoke column indicates an ordinance blast, not a jet crash.

Anyone who insists a 757 can disappear into the ground is either lying or a fool, but it's up to you to stop believing them, so this September 11th, try something different. Try the truth.

 

[Mark F]

We've got a couple dozen pages of people telling me how worthless my evidence is, yet you say yours is no better.

I never said any such thing. I am using YOUR logic here. You claim no aircraft has ever crashed in quite the same way before and thus it could not have happened.

Well, no two (or three) JASSM missiles have ever done what you claim either, therefore it must not have happened. Again, using your logic the evidence is apparently only valid if there is another similar case.

 

[chris lz]

Yankee,

It's now page 25 and the only specific math I've seen from you attempting to show a 757 could not have made this crater is your color-coded diagram. Since you now concede that diagram does little to disprove anything, what other physics, numbers, do you have? All I see from you so far is "since missiles could have done it, F93 could not have done it," which is a logical error. The other thing you say is, it doesn't look right to you. That's personal intuition, not logic, math, or science. Can you please give us the SCIENCE that conclusively refutes a 757 impact for Shanksville?

Other crashes that left wing prints I can think of two off-hand: Air New Zealand F901, if I recall, left a pronounced stamp of its wing in the ice. And BEA flight 706 (Oct 2, 1971) also left wingprints. If you want an example of a plane burying itself, you can't do any better than Northwest flight 710. After the wings separated in flight, the fuselage dove into the soil and completely vanished. The entire thing. All under the soil.

regards,
Chris

 

[Mark F]

The debris does not match any of the other crash examples.

The smoke column indicates an ordinance blast, not a jet crash.

Anyone who insists a 757 can disappear into the ground is either lying or a fool, but it's up to you to stop believing them, so this September 11th, try something different. Try the truth.

You have been shown evidence of the remains of Flight 93 recovered at Shanksville. Much of that evidence was presented by the prosecution in the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui. If what you claim is even remotely true then one must ask; Have you presented your findings to his defense team? Surely if you are correct the man is likely innocent and at the very least deserves a new trial. So go on then, do something about it instead of just ranting in a relatively obscure internet forum.

 

[BasqueArch]

The society that sends missiles into an empty field and sheds crocodile tears for the fictional dead while killing in their name isn't normal.

What’s not normal is your defense for the killing of thousands of civilians from many countries that began in New York on 9/11 and not expect self-defense blowback. What’s abnormal and is despicable is calling the murdered passengers on flight 93 “the fictional dead”.

 

[chris lz]

Again, say this 100 times to yourself: Northwest flight 710: entire fuselage under soil. ALL OF IT.