How the Shanksville Crater Was Made

[yankee451]

You're not keeping up. Let me help you:

• the crater was made by missiles that didn't exist at the time
• the accuracy of the missiles that didn't exist at the time, but allegedly created the crater, was greater than the real missiles were capable of
• there is no evidence that missiles of the type that didn't exist at that time create craters of the type suggested
• the absence of any missile components at the crash site is a cover-up
• the presence of aircraft parts and personal effects consistent with the aircraft crashing there is a cover-up
• there has been not explanation of how, nor is there any evidence that the people who were on the plane somehow, somewhere, had new identities established. But that's okay, he's Just Asking Questions. The fact that there is no evidence only proves how likely it is
• The preponderance of evidence in favour of a particular outcome has no weight if that outcome is inconsistent with preconceptions. Conversely, speculation has the weight of evidence until proven otherwise AND it is agreed by the poster
• Tests conducted in the absence of accurate replication of the physics involved will prove those physics

The original claim is that a jet caused the damage and this has not yet been established, so get over yourself. The claim is a jet disappeared into the ground at shanksville, so before you can go demanding any calculations to support my counter claim, you'd better be prepared to do the same for the original claim first. You're in no position to demand anything.

 

[beachnut]

The original claim is that a jet caused the damage and this has not yet been established, so get over yourself. The claim is a jet disappeared into the ground at shanksville, so before you can go demanding any calculations to support my counter claim, you'd better be prepared to do the same for the original claim first. You're in no position to demand anything.

You show Pyrex balls making marks in sand to support your delusional claim of missiles. Pyrex balls at what degree? You say 10, but it was at 4.75 degree. How do you make the engine impressions seen in the news still you posted? lol, can you make up a dumber claim? Yes, I think you can.

RADAR proves you are wrong, along with DNA, and FDR.

http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/foia/9_11/Rec_Radar_Data_Study_all_aircraft.pdf
RADAR. oops, empirical data makes your claim, a fantasy.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc04.pdf
oops, the FDR, makes your claim, a fantasy.

You lost this round, for the 7th time in one thread. beachnut - 7, 451 - 0

good luck, on your next round, you need it. A missile not in inventory till 2002, and a fake impact crater photoshopped from Pyrex balls in sand, at 4.75 degrees. Wow.

 

[Dog Town]

Why is it so difficult to understand nothing you believe has been substantiated, so until it is why do you assume anything is true?

 

[Mudcat]

...disappeared into the ground? Yankee, maybe you can me out here because I must have missed the part that anyone even remotely suggested that. Unless, of course, no one suggested, hinted, asserted, claimed, or said it and you're just talking out your posterior orifice.

 

[yankee451]

How wold you suggest learning the truth about what caused the crater beyond examining the crater and looking for clues in the public domain? Or would you recommend letting an expert do the heavy lifting?

 

[yankee451]

...disappeared into the ground? Yankee, maybe you can me out here because I must have missed the part that anyone even remotely suggested that. Unless, of course, no one suggested, hinted, asserted, claimed, or said it and you're just talking out your posterior orifice.

It was sarcasm. Haven't you heard? It's all the rage.

 

[Mudcat]

It was sarcasm. Haven't you heard? It's all the rage.

First I heard of it. You've made a lot of really stupid claims in this thread so far, I figured you were going for gold. That's all.

 

[Kid Eager]

The original claim is that a jet caused the damage and this has not yet been established, so get over yourself. The claim is a jet disappeared into the ground at shanksville, so before you can go demanding any calculations to support my counter claim, you'd better be prepared to do the same for the original claim first. You're in no position to demand anything.

Oh dear, you mean this?

the crater was made by missiles that didn't exist at the time

the accuracy of the missiles that didn't exist at the time, but allegedly created the crater, was greater than the real missiles were capable of

there is no evidence that missiles of the type that didn't exist at that time create craters of the type suggested

the absence of any missile components at the crash site is a cover-up

the presence of aircraft parts and personal effects consistent with the aircraft crashing there is a cover-up

there has been not explanation of how, nor is there any evidence that the people who were on the plane somehow, somewhere, had new identities established. But that's okay, he's Just Asking Questions. The fact that there is no evidence only proves how likely it is

The preponderance of evidence in favour of a particular outcome has no weight if that outcome is inconsistent with preconceptions. Conversely, speculation has the weight of evidence until proven otherwise AND it is agreed by the poster

Tests conducted in the absence of accurate replication of the physics involved will prove those physics

Demand? What demand? I was simply summarizing your position. No need to get snippy. It's not my fault that your alternative hypothesis is weak.

 

[Oystein]

The original claim is that a jet caused the damage and this has not yet been established...

except by, you know ALL of the evidence, ALL of which you keep ignoring. Not least of which the plane they found in the crater and all around. And the remains of plane passengers found in the crater and all around. And the radar track of that plane which ended at that crater. And the FDR-coded flight path that ended in that crater - where the FDR was found. And all the witnesses, except the one you picked.

 

[beachnut]

3800mph impact compared to Flt 93 500mph impact, fast tiny apple, slow orange?

Fraud used to support fantasy. This is evidence? How can this get dumber?

Not sure but I bet it does. Oops. Is that 1.7km/sec? Yes it is. That is 3800 mph? I think so, can 451 check my math? No. darn.

I thought he said 10 degree?
The center lower impact is at 7.33 degrees, with a hollow Al ball. It does not look like Flt 93.

Guess a real 757 did the impact, at 142 degrees of roll, and 41.2 degrees pitch down, at high speed.

Fraud impacts photo shopped craters of Pyrex balls at what degree? What speed did the ball hit the sand, or was it more like dust? 10 degree would make on crater. oops

They found parts of people 20 feet down in the center of the crater. Did you know engineers at Boeing can tell you the speed of impact by looking at the crater? Did you talk to the Boeing field engineers who do aircraft accident investigations? No, why not? You are saying some people you call "they" did 911, but you don't have any expertise past some failed common sense?

Hey 451, you are at a skeptics forum, your fantasy failed.

 

[Mudcat]

Come on Beachnut, you know he didn't talk to any engineers. If he tried it any with even an ounce of self-respect would show him out the door. Maybe they might even open it first.

 

[cjnewson88]

The original claim is that a jet caused the damage and this has not yet been established

It has been established. 12 years ago. Just because you have refused for the last 12 years, and this entire thread, to acknowledge evidence due to your willful ignorance, does not mean UA93's crash site has not been established.

The MY claim is a jet disappeared into the ground at shanksville,

FTFY

so before you can go demanding any calculations to support my counter claim, you'd better be prepared to do the same for the original claim first. You're in no position to demand anything.

And you are in no position to confirm or deny any calculations or evidence presented. You admitted after several dodges you have no education in aviation, aerodynamics, air crash investigation or physics. Whats worse, you refuse to take advise from people who have. You are not qualified to pass accurate judgment on anything presented.

 

[yankee451]

Come on Beachnut, you know he didn't talk to any engineers. If he tried it any with even an ounce of self-respect would show him out the door. Maybe they might even open it first.

Yeah, I have everything to gain by conducting a project like this using my real name and face and my own money without talking to engineers.

 

[yankee451]

It has been established. 12 years ago. Just because you have refused for the last 12 years, and this entire thread, to acknowledge evidence due to your willful ignorance, does not mean UA93's crash site has not been established.



FTFY



And you are in no position to confirm or deny any calculations or evidence presented. You admitted after several dodges you have no education in aviation, aerodynamics, air crash investigation or physics. Whats worse, you refuse to take advise from people who have. You are not qualified to pass accurate judgment on anything presented.

Get over yourself - you can't even use your real name.

 

[yankee451]

First I heard of it. You've made a lot of really stupid claims in this thread so far, I figured you were going for gold. That's all.

So stupid none of you geniuses can touch it.

 

[beachnut]

Yeah, I have everything to gain by conducting a project like this using my real name and face and my own money without talking to engineers.

No rational engineer will work with you. You have a real name? Why are your claims fake? Funny; fake name people (wait we have real names) know what happened on 911, real name people make up lies and fantasy. Irony? or what?

Already seen, the only section of the wing you can afford is the wing tip. It did not break the steel, it knocked of the Al cladding.

I would stick with the easy stuff, fantasy, and forget spreading lies and disrespecting the dead of 911 with wild and crazy lies.


Your impact study with the Pyrex balls and hollow Al balls were at velocities of 3800 mph. Not at 10 degrees. How fast is your missile not in inventory in 2001? Zero? lol


You are not using your real name, you are using 451, which means what? You mean 451F? or what?

Why do real name 911 truthers make up lies and fantasy? Does it fool people to use a real name?

So stupid none of you geniuses can touch it.

Geniuses? Me? I am a poor pilot who went to engineering school so I would have something to think about when flying on long missions.

Your claim is not real. The dead are real, and the DNA is real; if I lost someone in the murder of flight 93 passengers, I would love to meet you and express my gratitude for you making fun of the dead. You are such a great person, ignoring reality, ignoring the evidence, and spreading lies.

You are exactly what you appear to be, a person spreading fantasy, and you don't care.

 

[yankee451]

Oh dear, you mean this?



Demand? What demand? I was simply summarizing your position. No need to get snippy. It's not my fault that your alternative hypothesis is weak.

Here's an article stating that "officially" it was being used successfully in November of 2001. So you're saying it wasn't in existence isn't exactly accurate is it? It was not yet in service but it was approved for production in January of 2001, which they wouldn't do if they weren't already proven to work. So despite the official production start time of December 2001. they were clearly operational long before then. Or are you suggesting they would approve production on something that wasn't working, but that two months after 9/11 it suddenly started working?

During a flight test, held at White Sands
Missile Range, N.M., an F-16 from the 46th
Test Wing launched the JASSM while cruising
at about 500 mph at an altitude of
15,000 feet. The weapon separated cleanly
from the aircraft, deployed its wings and
tail section, and ignited its engine at the
proper altitude to begin a 50-mile dash toward
the target array on the desert floor.
The missile flew exactly as planned through
three way points for a total of 9 minutes
(about 50 miles). The JASSM missile impacted
within a lethal distance of the relocatable
radar target and the warhead exploded.
All systems, including the engine,
guidance, and fuze arming performed flawlessly.
http://www.dau.mil/pubscats/PubsCats/PM/articles02/afnjf021.pdf

The origins of the Joint Air to Surface Standoff Missile (JASSM) may be traced to the late 1970s when the Air Force turned to a cruise missile instead of participating in the JTACMS missile. The cruise missile program became the Tri-Service Standoff Attack Missile (TSSAM), which was subsequently canceled because of technical difficulties and cost increases on the order of threefold. JASSM was a FY-96 new start follow-on weapon system to the canceled TSSAM. Price was expected to be under $500,000 in quantity, whereas the TASSM was targeted at $750,000 and was estimated to have increased to over $2 million per unit. Initially, the program entertained proposals from seven contractors. The build-up to the Request for Proposal release was a period of intense interaction between all contractors and the government team.

On June 17, 1996 Assistant Secretary of the Air Force for Acquisition Arthur Money announced that Lockheed-Martin Integrated Systems, Orlando, Fla.; and McDonnell Douglas Aerospace, St. Louis, Mo., had been selected to compete in the Program Definition and Risk Reduction (PDRR) phase of the JASSM program. Lockheed-Martin Integrated Systems and McDonnell Douglas Aerospace were awarded cost plus fixed fee contracts totaling $237.4 million, and will compete in head to head competition over the next 24 months. At the end of this phase, the Department of Defense would select a single winning contractor to complete development and production of at least 2,400 JASSMs at a total program cost of approximately $3 billion.

The Air Force and Navy developed an aggressive acquisition approach that reflects the intent to develop, produce, and initially deploy JASSMs within five years, by 2001. To minimize overall program risk, JASSM leveraged off existing technologies, readily available components, and previous weapon system developments to the maximum extent possible. JASSM's acquisition approach was based on precepts of Acquisition Reform and the concept of Cost as an Independent Variable. Instead of mandating requirements supported by countless military specifications, the JASSM program has only three key performance parameters: range, missile mission effectiveness and carrier operability. All other requirements were tradable to obtain a missile below the threshold average unit price of $700,000 per missile. The JASSM requirements and cost goals evolved over the previous year in an unprecedented partnership with industry, the joint warfighters, and the Department of Defense Acquisition Community.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/jassm-program.htm

 

[Mudcat]

Yeah, I have everything to gain by conducting a project like this using my real name and face and my own money without talking to engineers.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your test that you're referring to is the one that involves mounting a section of a 757 (or was it a 767?) wing on a rocket sled and launching it at a block of steel or something, right?

What does a test to confirm or bust what happened at the WTC have anything to do with what happened at Shanksville?

So stupid none of you geniuses can touch it.

How about you dial back the condescending attitude and consider how insane your 'theory' sounds for a moment.

 

[yankee451]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your test that you're referring to is the one that involves mounting a section of a 757 (or was it a 767?) wing on a rocket sled and launching it at a block of steel or something, right?

What does a test to confirm or bust what happened at the WTC have anything to do with what happened at Shanksville?

Engineers.

How about you dial back the condescending attitude and consider how insane your 'theory' sounds for a moment.

You first.

 

[UTLonghorn]

Don't waste your money on this "project", yankee. Use it instead on getting yourself some good psychiatric help. I'm not trying to be insulting, but if you actually believe no planes hit the world trade towers, then that's a clear indication that not everything is functioning up there.