Hokulele - kurious_kathy Book Challenge

Edges said:
So I was curious about this (as I first brought up the question) and, having wiki'ed it, found that this statement is true, assumint KK is a Protestant. In the Protestant sect, all those who have a relationship with Jesus are saints with a lowercase "S".
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Protestants cover a whole huge range of beliefs and not all Protestant sects hold such beliefs. I was raised as a Congregationalist (United Church of Christ) and I know we didn't have any such belief. I have a feeling that Kathy's brand of Christianity is not very mainstream. I'm not aware of any mainstream Protestant sects that hold this belief. Could you supply a cite?
 
supercorgi said:
Protestants cover a whole huge range of beliefs and not all Protestant sects hold such beliefs. I was raised as a Congregationalist (United Church of Christ) and I know we didn't have any such belief. I have a feeling that Kathy's brand of Christianity is not very mainstream. I'm not aware of any mainstream Protestant sects that hold this belief. Could you supply a cite?
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"Therefore, Scripturally speaking, the “saints” are the body of Christ, Christians, the church. All Christians are considered saints. All Christian are saints…and at the same time are called to be saints." Gotquestions.org

"Probably the most common designation that Christians used for each other was that of "saints".

"To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours" I Corinthians 1:2"
insearchoftruth.org


Of course there is also the LDS the RLDS and the FLDS.
 
Neverfly said:
How did the snake TALK?
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Well, in at least one translation Die Sprachen des Paradises, God speaks Swedish, Adam answers him in Danish, and Eve is seduced by an (of course!) French-speaking serpent.
 
kurious_kathy said:
This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.1 John 1:5
So if God is light then he is not darkness but he did create this world and every living being which does have darkness so he did create it. Are we clear God is not darkness?

So if God created darkness he must have use for it. We do know as Christians that God uses Satan all the time which must make him upset but God is always in control. Even poor Job would not have gone through all that if God had not allowed Satan to do it. So what could it be God was trying to do with that horrible trial that happened to Job? I see it was a huge test of character and faith but it was a very hard thing to go through which I know none of us would like. Even Job's wife and friends tried to console him but they only made it worse. Still Job did not cave in and exalted the Lord so God raised him back up and restored him and blessed him even greater than before. How's that for a testimony to faith?
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And what happened to Job's wife and children? The original ones?

How's that for a testimony to evil? Simply having Satan do his dirty work makes God a coward as well as evil. To use Charlie's analogy, if a knife (Satan) is used to stab someone, is the knife to blame?
 
kurious_kathy said:
Then the serpent came tempted Eve and the rest is history. How can we blame God for that?
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Leaving aside for the moment the whole issue of adults actually believing a story about a talking snake...

Didn't God create the serpent? If he truly loved Adam and Eve and wanted them to go on living in his paradise forever, why send temptation their way to ruin it for them? Entrapment!
 
supercorgi said:
Protestants cover a whole huge range of beliefs and not all Protestant sects hold such beliefs. I was raised as a Congregationalist (United Church of Christ) and I know we didn't have any such belief. I have a feeling that Kathy's brand of Christianity is not very mainstream. I'm not aware of any mainstream Protestant sects that hold this belief. Could you supply a cite?
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Sorry, should have qualified "Protestant sects" with "some". Like I said, I wiki'ed "saints" and under Protestants:

In many Protestant churches, the word "Saint" is used more generally to refer to anyone who is a Christian. This is similar in usage to Paul's numerous references in the New Testament of the Bible. In this sense, anyone who is within the Body of Christ (i.e., a professing Christian) is a 'saint' because of their relationship with Jesus. Because of this, many Protestants consider prayers to the saints to be idolatry or even necromancy.
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Reliability of Wikipedia notwithstanding, this implies that, at the very least, KK's definition of "saint" is not particular to her and does not refer to the colloquial use of the word "saint" or "saint". I was questioning her usage on those grounds.

However, I agree that this is probably not a belief held by the larger or more mainstream sects. I had certainly never heard of it.
 
I keep hearing about how the world was ruined when Adam took a bite of fruit and sin entered the world. But didn't Lucifer rebel against God -before- this happened? Why wasn't that considered a sin? Did that not have an effect on the world?
 
Moochie said:
KK, your understanding/comprehension of biblical exegesis seems to be that of a ten-year-old. Have you read the comic-book version of the bible or something?


M.
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Actually, I have! It was v useful for getting to know the OT without having to struggle through the real thing.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Let's back up a bit. Creation is true and when God created Adam from the earth he breathed life into him. Adam at that point was perfect without sin. Then God created Eve. Both were perfect and sinless, and they had fellowship with God.
Then the serpent came tempted Eve and the rest is history. How can we blame God for that? And if you were Eve do you think you would have been so rebellious? At that moment when Adam and Eve sinned they lost the garden and their fellowship with God because he cannot even look upon sin.
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So many contradictory statements here.

First off, Adam and Eve clearly were not perfect beings without sin. If they were then they would not have disobeyed God a being who was perfect and without sin. There are a few possibilities here.

1) God deliberately made Adam and Eve flawed. If this is the case then the bible is wrong about them and is not infallible and the whole creation myth of Christianity is thrown into serious question.

2) God is incapable of creating a being who is perfect and flawless, indicating that God is not perfect and flawless.

3) Adam and Eve were perfect and flawless, meaning their decision to eat of the fruit was the right decision. Meaning they were superior to God who told them not to eat it.
 
Madalch said:
I keep hearing about how the world was ruined when Adam took a bite of fruit and sin entered the world. But didn't Lucifer rebel against God -before- this happened? Why wasn't that considered a sin? Did that not have an effect on the world?
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I was under the impression that Lucifer rebelled much later, considering that he was walking around Heaven and conversing with God while Job was still alive.
 
Mr Clingford said:
Actually, I have! It was v useful for getting to know the OT without having to struggle through the real thing.
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Good lad! It is a fool who would deny ever learning anything from a comic book. I passed my 8th grade test on The Illiad from reading Classic Comics.

When I was young, my mom bought us The Bible Story Book. It was actually several volumes with lots of bible stories and lots of pictures. It really helped me know what the bible said.

Okay, I confess that I looked at Eve in the Garden of Eden pictures (Pre-fig leaf) quite a lot.

They tried to sanitize it, but being what it is, there were a number of pretty grisly scenes for a young kid. They didn't show Elisha's bear actually mauling the kids who taunted him for his bald head, but they did show it chasing them, and it was drooling.
 
Hokulele said:
And what happened to Job's wife and children? The original ones?

How's that for a testimony to evil? Simply having Satan do his dirty work makes God a coward as well as evil. To use Charlie's analogy, if a knife (Satan) is used to stab someone, is the knife to blame?
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I get more upset at Satan for what happened to Jobs first wife and family. God allowed it but only he truly knows why. Who are we to question Gods sovereignty?

And how the heck can you not hold the person responsible that used the knife? That's clearly twisted thinking each person must take responsibility for their own actions as none of us are innocent of wrong doing in Gods eyes. No one will get out of that one! The only way to not stand Gods ultimate judgement is through Christs forgiveness.
 
Kthulhut Fhtagn said:
I was under the impression that Lucifer rebelled much later, considering that he was walking around Heaven and conversing with God while Job was still alive.
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Lucifer was the very first to rebel along with his fallen angels. Who do you think hell was originally created for?

The reason I am here sharing Christ and my testimony of the truth of the gospel, is that I am hoping more can be saved from such a horrible eternity!
 
kurious_kathy said:
I get more upset at Satan for what happened to Jobs first wife and family. God allowed it but only he truly knows why. Who are we to question Gods sovereignty?
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Why do you think it is wrong to question this?

And how the heck can you not hold the person responsible that used the knife?
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Exactly. God told Satan what to do, essentially wielding the knife.


Back the OP, I have read all of the articles you have linked, and addressed the comments therein. What are your impressions so far on Ehrman's book?
 
kurious_kathy said:
The reason I am here sharing Christ and my testimony of the truth of the gospel, is that I am hoping more can be saved from such a horrible eternity!
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But you see, here at JREF most people are vastly more rational and intellectually capable than you are. If you want to save anyone here from a horrible eternity, you'll have to make your case in a rational and intelligent way. You have yet to come even remotely close to doing that. Knowing that, wouldn't you consider trying a different approach?
 
supercorgi said:
Protestants cover a whole huge range of beliefs and not all Protestant sects hold such beliefs. I was raised as a Congregationalist (United Church of Christ) and I know we didn't have any such belief. I have a feeling that Kathy's brand of Christianity is not very mainstream. I'm not aware of any mainstream Protestant sects that hold this belief. Could you supply a cite?
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Well we are non denominational at Calvary Chapel. Here's a link to more info on our belief, http://www.calvarychapel.com/what_we_believe.cfm
 
GeeMack said:
But you see, here at JREF most people are vastly more rational and intellectually capable than you are. If you want to save anyone here from a horrible eternity, you'll have to make your case in a rational and intelligent way. You have yet to come even remotely close to doing that. Knowing that, wouldn't you consider trying a different approach?
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What I find so amazing about God is even though he is way smarter than we can even imagine or relate to, he reveals himself to those of us who are humble and as simple children. Can't you see the beauty in that? God always wanted it simple we are the ones who try to complicate everything in just about every way we can.

I know intellectuals have a different mind set than I do but can't you simplify the way you think about some things? What if that is all you need to do to understand God, be as a child and go to him?
 
Hokulele said:
Why do you think it is wrong to question this?




Exactly. God told Satan what to do, essentially wielding the knife.


Back the OP, I have read all of the articles you have linked, and addressed the comments therein. What are your impressions so far on Ehrman's book?
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I am not ready yet on your book but hope to start commenting soon. We have had a lot of things going on around here the past few days.

As to why it's wrong to question God's sovereignty, it just is. He's God and has the right to do with his creation as he sees fit. Why did he flood the earth the first time? because people had gotten so evil. And as far as I can see if these were the days of Noah he would be loading the ark about right now.

"Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand and Jesus died so you don't have to! Die once, Live Twice!!
 
kurious_kathy said:
What I find so amazing about God is even though he is way smarter than we can even imagine or relate to, he reveals himself to those of us who are humble and as simple children. Can't you see the beauty in that? God always wanted it simple we are the ones who try to complicate everything in just about every way we can.

I know intellectuals have a different mind set than I do but can't you simplify the way you think about some things? What if that is all you need to do to understand God, be as a child and go to him?
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If I thought you would ever read or respond to anything I've ever posted I would point out that your life is INFINITELY better because all these "smart" people have dedicated their lives to innovation rather than sitting in a circle with vapid grins on their faces babbling about Jesus.

You should go join the Amish if you hate what the "smart" folks do so much.
 
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