Heeeeeeere's Obamacare!

[AlBell]

Botched roll-out confirmed, apology given (BBC)

Fixable by end of November?

Since no year has been picked, sure, why not?

 

[MattusMaximus]

The rules for large businesses were delayed for one year, which means that no company will face any penalty whatsoever for not providing insurance until 2015. So anyone saying that they are cutting back hours in 2013, in advance of rule changes that don't start for 15 months, even though they need those workers, is just full of crap. Isn't that obvious on its face?

I never understood the logic behind the argument that because some companies are mistreating their workers, it is somehow - magically - the government's fault. Have those making such an argument ever considered that perhaps the people running those companies are jerkwads, and people should be supporting more socially responsible companies?

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

I never understood the logic behind the argument that because some companies are mistreating their workers, it is somehow - magically - the government's fault.

There's no magic involved. Companies respond to incentives, and if the government places certain types of incentives companies will tend to behave in certain ways.

Have those making such an argument ever considered that perhaps the people running those companies are jerkwads, and people should be supporting more socially responsible companies?

This is completely unrealistic.

 

[Mike!]

Botched roll-out confirmed, apology given (BBC)

Fixable by end of November?

"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a Hamburger today."

 

[Kestrel]

I never understood the logic behind the argument that because some companies are mistreating their workers, it is somehow - magically - the government's fault. Have those making such an argument ever considered that perhaps the people running those companies are jerkwads, and people should be supporting more socially responsible companies?

If you run Papa Johns Pizza, you want the public to think "tasty pizza" when they see your ads. Right now a lot of people think "company run by a jerk". It may take a couple years for the company to recover from the stupidity of their CEO.

 

[MattusMaximus]

There's no magic involved. Companies respond to incentives, and if the government places certain types of incentives companies will tend to behave in certain ways.

This is completely unrealistic.

Really? Tell that to Papa John's Pizza

 

[elbe]

There's no magic involved. Companies respond to incentives, and if the government places certain types of incentives companies will tend to behave in certain ways.



This is completely unrealistic.

Do you really believe that people make rational decisions? Have you even met people?

 

[plague311]

BTW: Thanks for driving jobs out of the local economy.

Did I mention I voted for taxing onlines at local/state rates? I bet you love that.

LoL don't know why I would possibly give a **** to be honest. Also, how is it driving jobs out of the local economy? Where I live there's a job on every corner, if you go unemployed more than a week it's because you're trying.

 

[plague311]

ETA: Fixed your post due to personal preference. It really irks me when people approach every error as a "lie". People make mistakes, people are misinformed, or misunderstand, people have erroneous beliefs. All of these can lead to false statements that are NOT lies. Lies are purposeful misinformation.

My post didn't need fixing, at best he didn't do proper research. He made a broad sweeping generalization off of one personal experience. I mean, I'm glad you made it better for you, but he knew what he was saying, if he didn't then it was on him to do the research. Which means he lying through ignorance.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Are the subsidies a direct reduction in how much you pay per month or a credit against the tax you pay at the end of the year? My Google foo is weak today and I can't seem to find the answer. If it's the latter, this plan is screwed.

I know that you can take it as a direct reduction in your premiums - the "Advance Premium Credit". I *think* you can choose to belay it until your following year's taxes and take it as a deduction or whatever then... but I'm not entirely sure. I don't know anyone who would do so.

 

[Emily's Cat]

This is completely unrealistic.

Why? There are several companies that I avoid specifically because I disapprove of their business practices, including how they treat their employees.

 

[Kestrel]

I know that you can take it as a direct reduction in your premiums - the "Advance Premium Credit". I *think* you can choose to belay it until your following year's taxes and take it as a deduction or whatever then... but I'm not entirely sure. I don't know anyone who would do so.

You do have the option of taking the subsidy by the month or as a tax credit at the end of the year. The later might be preferable in cases where insurance cost is high and you are not certain if family income will be above or below 400% of the federal poverty level. Taking a monthly credit could leave you owing several thousand to the federal government if your income goes over the limit.

 

[Emily's Cat]

You do have the option of taking the subsidy by the month or as a tax credit at the end of the year. The later might be preferable in cases where insurance cost is high and you are not certain if family income will be above or below 400% of the federal poverty level. Taking a monthly credit could leave you owing several thousand to the federal government if your income goes over the limit.

That's a good point. I hadn't slowed down and thought about the people at the cusp.

 

[Kestrel]

I heard an interesting comment on NPR a couple days back. The federal rules for IT contractors end up restricting the bidding on any large project to just a few large companies who understand the process. These companies are experts at getting contracts, but not so good at delivering results. Something like 94% all large federal IT projects fail to meet the specifications or miss the deadline.

 

[Unabogie]

Here's a great resource for tracking how many people have enrolled via the Medicaid expansions or the exchanges, broken down by state. All numbers have sources.

http://obamacaresignups.net/

Oregon has signed up 17,000 via Cover Oregon, plus an additional 70,000 people for Medicaid. Nice job, Dr. Kitzhaber!

ETA: Looking at the numbers for Red States is just heart breaking. According to this, Florida has signed up a total of ONE new person via the new law. Contrast that to California where almost 200,000 people have gotten covered who weren't before. Again, it sucks to live in a GOP controlled state. They are screwing their people, big time.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Do you really believe that people make rational decisions?

Across the board? Of course not.

But as far as groups of people responding to economic incentives, almost always.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Why? There are several companies that I avoid specifically because I disapprove of their business practices, including how they treat their employees.

I guess you're right on smaller scales and in obvious high profile cases as Papa John's pizza which MM posted above. But his original phrase seemed to suggest more of a wholesale phenomenon.

 

[elbe]

Across the board? Of course not.

But as far as groups of people responding to economic incentives, almost always.

Maybe if the incentives are clear, but even then people make decisions that are actually worse for them for non-economic reasons. Libertarianism doesn't work for a reason.
There's a concept I learned in the business world: chasing pennies with dollars. The market doesn't magically make people rational actors when we know they aren't.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Maybe if the incentives are clear, but even then people make decisions that are actually worse for them for non-economic reasons.

Individual people, sure. But as a group, and with most economic incentives, people tend to act rationally. If the cost of bananas or peanuts goes up, people and businesses will tend to buy fewer bananas or peanuts.

Libertarianism doesn't work for a reason.

If by Libertarianism, you mean free market policies, I'd disagree that they don't work.

There's a concept I learned in the business world: chasing pennies with dollars. The market doesn't magically make people rational actors when we know they aren't.

I'm familiar with the concept, but do not see how it applies here.

 

[elbe]

Individual people, sure. But as a group, and with most economic incentives, people tend to act rationally. If the cost of bananas or peanuts goes up, people and businesses will tend to buy fewer bananas or peanuts.

So you didn't actually read my sentence?

If by Libertarianism, you mean free market policies, I'd disagree that they don't work.

I think we all know what libertarianism is and how it has consistently failed. The market works for some things but fails miserably at others; mixed markets work much better.

I'm familiar with the concept, but do not see how it applies here.

It's an example of people acting irrationally when it comes to money.