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Heeeeeeere's Obamacare!

Newtons Bit said:
I don't follow.
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I'm referring to the most obstructionist house in history that did everything they could plausibly do in order to make the ACA fail. Has nothing to do with the website, of course, but if they'd been willing participants of the plan their side of the house made in the first place, then things probably would have been a hell of a lot better.

With regard to the website, though, they need to lock the politicians in the closet and let the web devs just do their thing. Quickly turned into a too-many-cooks-spoil-the-soup scenario.
 
Mister Earl said:
Two people are building a wall. One works constantly, laying the bricks. The other mixes the mortar, but doesn't like the bricklayer, so while the other guy is working on the other side, he takes the opportunity to knock a few bricks out here and there as often as he can.

The wall doesn't get done in time. Who bears the most blame?
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Perhaps it would be the manager who committed that the wall would be built on time then failed to properly oversee the construction?
 
Mister Earl said:
I'm referring to the most obstructionist house in history that did everything they could plausibly do in order to make the ACA fail. Has nothing to do with the website, of course, but if they'd been willing participants of the plan their side of the house made in the first place, then things probably would have been a hell of a lot better.
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Ah. I don't see how they can be compared to someone who sabotaged a construction though. The House GOP did a bunch of yelling and screaming and posturing, but they had no control over the implementation of anything in ACA.

With regard to the website, though, they need to lock the politicians in the closet and let the web devs just do their thing. Quickly turned into a too-many-cooks-spoil-the-soup scenario.
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Which politicians?

And what will we say when they come out of the closet! :p
 
JohnnyG said:
Perhaps it would be the manager who committed that the wall would be built on time then failed to properly oversee the construction?
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If that's the case, then yes. I'm not up on the details on the website, I admit. I don't know who caused that thing to be the mess that it is. I know it's way more complex than your usual site, given the number of systems it has to link in to, but that doesn't justify the results it got with that kind of budget.

Newtons Bit said:
Ah. I don't see how they can be compared to someone who sabotaged a construction though. The House GOP did a bunch of yelling and screaming and posturing, but they had no control over the implementation of anything in ACA.
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The right side of the house did spread a crazy amount of misinformation regarding the ACA. Death panels? They went out of their way to kill ACA, even though it wasn't their plan. If they'd been on board an instead tried to productively fix it, we'd all be better off.

Newtons Bit said:
Which politicians?

And what will we say when they come out of the closet! :p
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Last I'd heard (and I'm admittedly not up on the more recent developments and findings regarding the site), the site devs were trying to put blame on various unnamed politicians who kept interfering with the development via micromanagement.
 
Mister Earl said:
I'm referring to the most obstructionist house in history that did everything they could plausibly do in order to make the ACA fail.
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Which amounts to... nothing.

There is nothing the House did, or even could do, to make the ACA fail. It was never within their power.

Has nothing to do with the website, of course, but if they'd been willing participants of the plan their side of the house made in the first place, then things probably would have been a hell of a lot better.
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How? The House has zero responsibility or power in terms of implementation.
 
Ziggurat said:
Which amounts to... nothing.

There is nothing the House did, or even could do, to make the ACA fail. It was never within their power.
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Agreed. This however, in my eyes at least, does not make it acceptable. They focused on something they knew to be ineffectual, rather than focus on doing something actually productive. The republican part I remember and love would say, "Ok, we don't have majority. Let's do what we can in spite of that." The party as it is now is, not "Let's do everything we can to spite the other guy's president, even if it means getting nothing done and wrecking what left is actually working."

Ziggurat said:
How? The House has zero responsibility or power in terms of implementation.
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I'm not restricting it to implementation. They've spread absurd amounts of disinformation about the ACA. They fought against it like hell, despite it being their own plan. They lied about the other side being unwilling to negotiate.

Let's be honest here. If they'd supported their own plan, bargained with the dems in good faith, and worried any amount about actually making things happen rather than stupid, fruitless political posturing, this country would be a heck of a lot better than it is.
 
Wow. Just... wow.
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It's like a parody which mocks supporters of Obamacare, except that it's actually trying to advocate for Obamacare.
 
ravdin said:
Because the debacle is entirely the GOP's fault, that's why. Why are you being impertinent by suggesting otherwise?
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Should be a simple matter for you to prove someone here is making that claim, then. Let's see you make that happen.

Ziggurat said:
Wow. Just...

It's like a parody which mocks supporters of Obamacare, except that it's actually trying to advocate for Obamacare.
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All I can say is, wow. They might want a new marketing guy. LOL.
 
Mister Earl said:
I'm referring to the most obstructionist house in history that did everything they could plausibly do in order to make the ACA fail. Has nothing to do with the website, of course, but if they'd been willing participants of the plan their side of the house made in the first place, then things probably would have been a hell of a lot better.

With regard to the website, though, they need to lock the politicians in the closet and let the web devs just do their thing. Quickly turned into a too-many-cooks-spoil-the-soup scenario.
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You wanted it. You supported it. You voted for it. It's your fault.
 
Virus said:
You wanted it. You supported it. You voted for it. It's your fault.
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And I'm supporting the people working to fix it. What I'm not supporting are the people using the trouble with the website as a political fulcrum to destroy it and make people who couldn't otherwise get insurance go without.

What's the republican alternative? Oh, wait. ACA *is* the republican alternative. Silly me, I forgot for a moment that they were callously shooting down their own plan and hurting people for the sake of political posturing.
 
Mister Earl said:
And I'm supporting the people working to fix it. What I'm not supporting are the people using the trouble with the website as a political fulcrum to destroy it and make people who couldn't otherwise get insurance go without.

What's the republican alternative? Oh, wait. ACA *is* the republican alternative. Silly me, I forgot for a moment that they were callously shooting down their own plan and hurting people for the sake of political posturing.
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The Republican party believes that making Obama fail is far more important than fixing our nation's problems.
 
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Kestrel said:
The Republican party believes that making Obama fail is far more important than fixing our nation's problems.
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I guess you have to keep telling that lie since you have no facts at hand. It's kinda sad really ...
 
ravdin said:
Via CNN (those well known right wing reactionaries):

White House lowering Obamacare expectations amid lackluster reports

There are no official numbers yet from the Obama administration, but it looks like enrollment is far below the original estimates.
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Well, duh. That's because the damn federal website didn't work for the first few weeks.

This article has a good take on this point as well...

Insurance companies share the blame for low Obamacare enrollment

Bottom line: The website is fixable and it is being fixed. People are slow to enroll in the beginning for a variety of reasons: crappy website rollout, insurance companies not knowing the rules, and also because many people just haven't started to look yet as the deadline is still four months away. Not to mention the general confusion about such a complex and far-reaching new law.

It's not a sprint, it's a marathon. The really important enrollment numbers are those that appear after March next year. Anything else, from any side on this thing, is nothing more than political bluster and posturing.
 
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