Freedom of speech?

[Thermal]

This particular protest seems to bother you more than most.

It does not. Had you bothered to do the reading here, what bothers me is poster Beelzebub lying over and over about the evidence, and changing the subject when called on it.

Based on our previous interactions, can I recommend you pretend that the guy who was punched was black?

He is black, ya nitwit.

It seems like that sort of information has made a lot of people (such as yourself in the Ahmaud Arbery thread) ok with violence up to and including murder directed at a victim to the point where more effort is spent questioning why the murder victim didn't choose to commit trespass to escape while being chased down by good old boys claiming that committing trespass gives them the right to commit murder.

You're lying. Again. I said all along in the Jogger thread that he was murdered, and that in my State it would not even be a question. The only question was whether Georgia's open-carry laws would affect that. I also started and ended on that thread blasting the DA who let them get away with it. Stop lying.

So if a white provocateur is treated the same way you would treat a black victim, I'm sure any claims of bias could safely be ignored.

This literally means nothing.

I am aware that a guy who is black was punched. The edited video that starts well after the confrontation is initiated shows that. Doesn't change the whole...shall we say "violent buck bulldozing over an innocent white person" vibe that some people have filtered these interactions through.

Pure, unvarnished lying. The AP article specifically refers to Andersen, the black man, being punched. You, like Beelzebuddy, had no idea that Andersen was black. You didn't care. You only worked to gaslight the narrative. And you continue to lie here, claiming some tripe about a 'buck' bulldozing an...innocent white man??? does the blatant nature of this lying bother you at all?

I don't care whether someone in any story is black. Or whether he is an Australian computer hacker. Or how a writer's analogies are interpreted. What I care about is people's tendency to rewrite history to fit their personal preconceptions. Perception management...alternative facts...spin doctoring...whatever you want to call it. It is lying. Lying to change the way others see the world. Like a little wannabe sorcerer, conjuring up a world that suits your agenda. Trying to tease a new reality into existence and change the way others live their lives by lying.

The story here has a peacefully demonstrating conservative black guy who got worked over by what appears to be one or more counterprotesting white guys (admittedly not the best video). I opine that this is no bueno. Beelzebub immediately launches into heavy duty gaslighting, even claiming that "we know the Trumpers started gassing police, and the cops were ok with it", which is one of the most out-there spins I can imagine. He goes on to claim the guy in the ambulance is a Boogaloo Boi, flashing a boog hand sign. This is some seriously out in left field reconstruction of fact. And that is what I rail against, as I do over and over. The relentless lying.

Second best advice my father gave me was "Never Trust a White Man in a Suit" (the number one spot was some offhanded drunken sex tips that literally changed the course of my life). Over the years, I have cynically generalized that to "Never Trust a White Man". But that's not true. Some people are basically honest and play straight. So the next time you prance in to lie your way through a thread, like you did on the surfer/skater one, and now this one, refer back to this post. This is why I fight here, and argue year after year.

Because you lie.

 

[Brainster]

Knocked two of his teeth out, for the sin of...what was it? Wearing a hat or shirt? There was literally nothing else reported.

This shouldn't be a laughing matter. The way discourse is going down lately bodes ill.

It's what happens when people start buying the red meat rhetoric from their side's more rabid partisans. The Trump=Hitler, Biden=Stalin types. Well, if you really believed that Trump is another wannabe Fuehrer, why wouldn't you oppose him and his evil supporters with force?

And of course the same applies to the other side, and what we end up with is the dumber elements from both sides' partisans protesting each other. Antifa-tards versus Proud (to live in a trailer park) Boys. Darwin at his finest.

 

[Thermal]

I confess I haven't looked at the article, but no, I don't think it's acceptable to attack someone physically for saying something offensive, even terribly offensive. Depending on what is said, it might be understandable but not acceptable.

This has nothing to do with feeling sorry or caring about the punched person.

I don't know anything about Andersen (the punchee with the new Jack O' Lantern grin) or the evidently small group that he came to speak on behalf of. What troubles me is this acceptance of preemptive violence, while saying "but I totes don't like what others in their party say on twitter". This is messed up, and going downhill fast.

 

[Thermal]

It's what happens when people start buying the red meat rhetoric from their side's more rabid partisans. The Trump=Hitler, Biden=Stalin types. Well, if you really believed that Trump is another wannabe Fuehrer, why wouldn't you oppose him and his evil supporters with force?

And of course the same applies to the other side, and what we end up with is the dumber elements from both sides' partisans protesting each other. Antifa-tards versus Proud (to live in a trailer park) Boys. Darwin at his finest.

Seriously, man. This isn't even a partisan thing. It's a civilized ******* human being thing. We can't be a bunch of rabid dogs going at each others throats and claim moral high ground and award ourselves participation medals.

 

[Thermal]

Thermal, you are an honorable soul. Many of the others in this thread can’t be truthful if it goes against their political views. That says quite a bit about the character of some ITT.

It honest to god scares me. I joined this skeptical forum under the impression that this would be a haven from the endless gaslighting. Yet here we are.

 

[Bob001]

I don't know anything about Andersen (the punchee with the new Jack O' Lantern grin) or the evidently small group that he came to speak on behalf of. What troubles me is this acceptance of preemptive violence, while saying "but I totes don't like what others in their party say on twitter". This is messed up, and going downhill fast.

Nobody's accepting or promoting "preemptive violence." Nobody should be punching anybody else over what they say. But this was a scuffle between two mouthy guys. The rest of the crowd on either side apparently was not involved. The cops made no arrests. There is no great Constitutional principle involved. The Trumpers were belng deliberately provocative, and the provoked responded. Walk into a neighborhood bar and yell "Yo' mommas are whores!" and see what happens. The street is not the Supreme Court.

 

[Thermal]

Nobody's accepting or promoting "preemptive violence."

Then you have not read the thread.

Nobody should be punching anybody else over what they say. But this was a scuffle between two mouthy guys. The rest of the crowd on either side apparently was not involved. The cops made no arrests. There is no great Constitutional principle involved. The Trumpers were belng deliberately provocative, and the provoked responded. Walk into a neighborhood bar and yell "Yo' mommas are whores!" and see what happens. The street is not the Supreme Court.

Is that a fact? Tell me, if you please...what exactly was said? And in case you missed the rant above...no god damned lying.

 

[portlandatheist]

Thermal, you are an honorable soul. Many of the others in this thread can’t be truthful if it goes against their political views. That says quite a bit about the character of some ITT.

Seconded

 

[smartcooky]

Nobody's accepting or promoting "preemptive violence." Nobody should be punching anybody else over what they say. But this was a scuffle between two mouthy guys. The rest of the crowd on either side apparently was not involved. The cops made no arrests. There is no great Constitutional principle involved. The Trumpers were belng deliberately provocative, and the provoked responded. Walk into a neighborhood bar and yell "Yo' mommas are whores!" and see what happens. The street is not the Supreme Court.

RIGHT THERE! This is the most accurate post in the thread so far.

This whole thing is a nothing-burger, blown up out of all proportion by extreme axe-grinders on both sides of the debate.

 

[Bob001]

Then you have not read the thread.

Is that a fact? Tell me, if you please...what exactly was said? And in case you missed the rant above...no god damned lying.

A tad testy, are we? I wasn't there. I don't know exactly what was said. Wearing a MAGA hat at a pro-Trump demonstration in San Francisco is provocation enough.

 

[Thermal]

A tad testy, are we?

More than a tad, yeah. Nothing personal, man.

I wasn't there. I don't know exactly what was said. Wearing a MAGA hat at a pro-Trump demonstration in San Francisco is provocation enough.

Anderson wasn't wearing a MAGA hat. He was wearing a long-sleeved white shirt.

So if you don't know exactly, that's perfectly fair. Just plus or minus, then: what did he basically say to the guy who knocked his teeth out? How provocative was he being, just generally? You say he was 'mouthy'. Back that **** up.

How, in the broadest of brushes, was Andersen mouthy enough to provoke the assault?

eta: oh, and just being in SF doesn't give you privilege to batter anyone for their political position, either. Do you propose one's geographical location constitutes mouthiness sufficient to have your teeth punched out? If a liberal goes to Bumble**** Missouri, I suppose he is considered 'mouthy' enough, by virtue of wearing a plain white shirt, to be attacked?

 

[Thermal]

This whole thing is a nothing-burger, blown up out of all proportion by extreme axe-grinders on both sides of the debate.

Says the guy who still has teeth where they belong.

But you're right. Knocking someone's teeth out at a political rally is nothing, right? Just how things should be. Really out of proportion and extremely axe-grinding to say that all these mother ******* are getting carried away and should tone it down. Cuz assault, battery, and pepper spraying cops into the hospital is *checks notes* a nothing-burger.

 

[smartcooky]

Says the guy who still has teeth where they belong.

But you're right. Knocking someone's teeth out at a political rally is nothing, right? Just how things should be. Really out of proportion and extremely axe-grinding to say that all these mother ******* are getting carried away and should tone it down. Cuz assault, battery, and pepper spraying cops into the hospital is *checks notes* a nothing-burger.

This was two guys disagreeing about politics, and coming to blows, and one of them got a lucky shot in. ... like that's never happened before

If the punch hadn't knocked someone's pearlies out, it might not have even made the news!

The way Trump has divided your country, setting one side against the other, I'm genuinely astonished this doesn't happen more often.

 

[Thermal]

This was two guys disagreeing about politics, and coming to blows, and one of them got a lucky shot in. ... like that's never happened before

If the punch hadn't knocked someone's pearlies out, it might not have even made the news!

The hell are you watching?? Andersen, on the videos linked upthread, is walking with his buddy, and is attacked from behind by some rando he was not even talking with, who then proceeds to tune him up thoroughly. This was no freaking disagreement about politics, and Andersen didn't even participate when his teeth were getting punched out; he continued to try and get out of there. Only in the end did he try to wrestle for control of his attacker.

See, this is exactly what I was bitching about upthread: your description is not remotely what we all see.

The way Trump has divided your country, setting one side against the other, I'm genuinely astonished this doesn't happen more often.

Very true. Way too true. Which is why I'd like to see it backed up as much as possible. This train is on a bad track.

 

[Darat]

The hell are you watching?? Andersen, on the videos linked upthread, is walking with his buddy, and is attacked from behind by some rando he was not even talking with, who then proceeds to tune him up thoroughly. This was no freaking disagreement about politics, and Andersen didn't even participate when his teeth were getting punched out; he continued to try and get out of there. Only in the end did he try to wrestle for control of his attacker.



See, this is exactly what I was bitching about upthread: your description is not remotely what we all see.







Very true. Way too true. Which is why I'd like to see it backed up as much as possible. This train is on a bad track.

What I'm not getting is what is the freedom of speech issue?

 

[Elaedith]

The hell are you watching?? Andersen, on the videos linked upthread, is walking with his buddy, and is attacked from behind by some rando he was not even talking with, who then proceeds to tune him up thoroughly. This was no freaking disagreement about politics, and Andersen didn't even participate when his teeth were getting punched out; he continued to try and get out of there. Only in the end did he try to wrestle for control of his attacker.

See, this is exactly what I was bitching about upthread: your description is not remotely what we all see.

But you see, we live in a post-truth world.

If facts don't fit the narrative, there are always alternative facts.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

counter protesters

Is it never not okay to punch a Nazi?

"With counter protesters trying to pull down barricades and throwing objects, officers escorted conservative demonstrators out of the plaza and shuttled them to safety in a police van." NBC.

If I hear someone say, "I am going to punch a Nazi," I will respond with "Knock yourself out."

 

[thaiboxerken]

"With counter protesters trying to pull down barricades and throwing objects, officers escorted conservative demonstrators out of the plaza and shuttled them to safety in a police van." NBC.

If I hear someone say, "I am going to punch a Nazi," I will respond with "Knock yourself out."

I agree. Sounds like they effectively shut down a Nazi rally.

 

[Meadmaker]

This was two guys disagreeing about politics, and coming to blows, and one of them got a lucky shot in. ... like that's never happened before

Did you watch the video? It was nothing like that. The two guys didn't come to blows. An organizer of a public protest was walking, talking to someone, when out of the crowd a masked guy came up from behind and punched him in the side of the face. When the man who had just been punched turned to see where the shot had come from, the masked man threw another punch, this time directly to the organizer's mouth, knocking out his front teeth.

The man who got punched was not verbally engaging at all with the man who punched him. He didn't fight back. He didn't provoke anything. Nothing at all like that happened.

 

[Meadmaker]

And what is it with calling the rally organizers nazis and fascists? I haven't even figured out who these people are. News reports referred to "well known" speakers, but I hadn't heard of any of them. One news report said that two of the intended speakers were perennial San Francisco mayoral candidates. If they were "perennial", that usually means third party or fringe, as opposed to official Republicans, but I somehow doubt they were the official Nazi Party candidates.