Freedom of speech?

We're going to expend a lot of words and a certain someone (probably more than one someone) is going to pick a hill to defend way, way, way past the point of sanity just to say:

"Freedom of speech is a harder concept to apply to a society when you have extremist positions in it and people thinking they have to defend the most vile positions just to prove they are more for Freedom of Speech than you are."
 
Ooo ooo ooo, let me try randomly posting to dead air:

A certain someone is not remotely following the discussion. The discussion actually taking place is the rewriting of a narrative. Spin, if you will, obscuring the discussion. As skeptics, this shouldn't go unchallenged. In fact, analyzing the argument should be a focal point.

But you do you.
 
It seems to have been a rally for the right to spread false information.
Here's a woman who appears to have lost almost all her teeth.
It's a disgrace. I think it's time to put a stop to people having to live like this:
 
Ok, so the guy who got the dental work clearly has a pretty smile before getting hit. Beelzebuddy, is that one voice in your head we can lay to rest?

The ambulance riding "Boogaloo Boi" who is in a leg brace, and who is pretty obviously not a Boogaloo Boi, ok sign or not, was not said dental work guy.

Eta: Beelzebuddy, are those attackers the Trumpers you claimed? You pretty sure about that? Remember, you said we know that. How's that knowledge thingy working for you?
 
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Thermal said:
Ok, so the guy who got the dental work clearly has a pretty smile before getting hit. Beelzebuddy, is that one voice in your head we can lay to rest?

The ambulance riding "Boogaloo Boi" who is in a leg brace, and who is pretty obviously not a Boogaloo Boi, ok sign or not, was not said dental work guy.

Eta: Beelzebuddy, are those attackers the Trumpers you claimed? You pretty sure about that? Remember, you said we know that. How's that knowledge thingy working for you?
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Huh, so the video shows it was basically one guy throwing a punch? Gosh, if only someone had just warned us against overgeneralizing the actions of one person throwing a punch or driving a car into a crowd. Oh wait. You did. In post 24. Since I'm not that guy, it seems to me you ought to ride your high horse over and preach at him. Give 'im both barrels.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
Huh, so the video shows it was basically one guy throwing a punch? Gosh, if only someone had just warned us against overgeneralizing the actions of one person throwing a punch or driving a car into a crowd. Oh wait. You did. In post 24. Since I'm not that guy, it seems to me you ought to ride your high horse over and preach at him. Give 'im both barrels.
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:hit:
 
Also like everything else our concept of "Freedom of Speech" developed in a world with facts in it. And I question, like many things, how much it can survive in our new post-facts world.

There has never been a law on the books that says "You are required by the law of the land to believe that 2+2 equals 4." If you think 2+2=5 jackbooted thugs are not going to kick your door in a night and drag you off to secret undercover education camp.

But there was always just a general, unspoken understanding that 2+2=4 and that was the only statement on the matter that was worth listening to. You weren't punished if you didn't agree, but life just didn't work for you because your problem was with reality.

You remove the concept of objective facts from the equation and all of our other moral and standards, regardless of how good or useful they are, start to eat themselves and become destructive.
 
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Thermal said:
Ok, so the guy who got the dental work clearly has a pretty smile before getting hit. Beelzebuddy, is that one voice in your head we can lay to rest?

The ambulance riding "Boogaloo Boi" who is in a leg brace, and who is pretty obviously not a Boogaloo Boi, ok sign or not, was not said dental work guy.

Eta: Beelzebuddy, are those attackers the Trumpers you claimed? You pretty sure about that? Remember, you said we know that. How's that knowledge thingy working for you?
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This particular protest seems to bother you more than most. Based on our previous interactions, can I recommend you pretend that the guy who was punched was black? It seems like that sort of information has made a lot of people (such as yourself in the Ahmaud Arbery thread) ok with violence up to and including murder directed at a victim to the point where more effort is spent questioning why the murder victim didn't choose to commit trespass to escape while being chased down by good old boys claiming that committing trespass gives them the right to commit murder. So if a white provocateur is treated the same way you would treat a black victim, I'm sure any claims of bias could safely be ignored.
 
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Thermal said:
Knocked two of his teeth out, for the sin of...what was it? Wearing a hat or shirt? There was literally nothing else reported.

This shouldn't be a laughing matter. The way discourse is going down lately bodes ill.
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I confess I haven't looked at the article, but no, I don't think it's acceptable to attack someone physically for saying something offensive, even terribly offensive. Depending on what is said, it might be understandable but not acceptable.

This has nothing to do with feeling sorry or caring about the punched person.
 
It's pretty apparent from the AP article which side was being violent. There's a dozen photos too. If you click the photo at the top you can scroll through other photos. The video of the black guy getting punched is but one of the violent incidents I can see. I also have a hard time believing that the "pro-cop" demonstrators were pepper-spraying or otherwise attacking police officers.
 
Puppycow said:
It's pretty apparent from the AP article which side was being violent. There's a dozen photos too. If you click the photo at the top you can scroll through other photos. The video of the black guy getting punched is but one of the violent incidents I can see. I also have a hard time believing that the "pro-cop" demonstrators were pepper-spraying or otherwise attacking police officers.
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Son of a gun, the organizer of the protest said he was attacked for no reason? Well, that settles it, there is no way someone would claim he was attacked for no reason if he instigated a fight!
 
wareyin said:
This particular protest seems to bother you more than most. Based on our previous interactions, can I recommend you pretend that the guy who was punched was black? It seems like that sort of information has made a lot of people (such as yourself in the Ahmaud Arbery thread) ok with violence up to and including murder directed at a victim to the point where more effort is spent questioning why the murder victim didn't choose to commit trespass to escape while being chased down by good old boys claiming that committing trespass gives them the right to commit murder. So if a white provocateur is treated the same way you would treat a black victim, I'm sure any claims of bias could safely be ignored.
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I'm looking for the smilies, because I can't tell which parts are serious.

Were you aware that the guy who was punched is, in fact, black?
 
wareyin said:
Son of a gun, the organizer of the protest said he was attacked for no reason? Well, that settles it, there is no way someone would claim he was attacked for no reason if he instigated a fight!
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Well, there is video.
 
Quick, someone tell the people in Portland that all they have to do is say their protests are against police brutality and for freedom of speech. Then the conservatives will give a **** about actual agents of the government denying people their rights as much as counter protestors getting violent. Hey, counter protesters who are FOR police violence got violent too! Then they have to care about that too to even have the faintest chance to pretend to be consistent about political violence.

Kidding aside while we know conservatives are absolutely lying about caring about political violence, that doesn't mean everyone else has to follow suit. It isn't even useful to point our their hypocrisy. That's beyond proven already. It's not hard to keep the higher ground; just wait for them inevitably to attack first.
 
tyr_13 said:
Quick, someone tell the people in Portland that all they have to do is say their protests are against police brutality and for freedom of speech. Then the conservatives will give a **** about actual agents of the government denying people their rights as much as counter protestors getting violent. Hey, counter protesters who are FOR police violence got violent too! Then they have to care about that too to even have the faintest chance to pretend to be consistent about political violence.

Kidding aside while we know conservatives are absolutely lying about caring about political violence, that doesn't mean everyone else has to follow suit. It isn't even useful to point our their hypocrisy. That's beyond proven already. It's not hard to keep the higher ground; just wait for them inevitably to attack first.
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Also, from the helicopter shot (from MM's video) the protest seems to be a bit of a nothingburger. Frisco! Smh ...
 
Meadmaker said:
I'm looking for the smilies, because I can't tell which parts are serious.

Were you aware that the guy who was punched is, in fact, black?
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I am aware that a guy who is black was punched. The edited video that starts well after the confrontation is initiated shows that. Doesn't change the whole...shall we say "violent buck bulldozing over an innocent white person" vibe that some people have filtered these interactions through.
 
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