Fox News racist or just hates Obama?

[Cicero]

Cicero is the same one who believes "looks like a slut" and "being a slut" are the same thing. It's impossible to discuss things with people who struggle with very simple stuff like that. You just ridicule them and/or move on.

In between your "ridiculing" and "moving" could you answer my previous question to you:

How would you react if a stranger called your mother using either characterization? You would laugh off the first and only get angry at the latter?

Come on. I waiting for your Dukakis inspired answer.

 

[slingblade]

I'd laugh, because my mother is dead. It's hard to be a slut when you are a box of ashes.

Were she alive, I'd still laugh, because the offender doesn't know my mother, and is simply trying to appeal to my emotions. I'd be foolish to allow that, to play into his hands. Then I'd tell him that, as amusing as it is, I can tell he's just trying to get my goat...and she's a slut of the first caliber. So, he's welcome to her, come by around 8.

 

[Cicero]

I'd laugh, because my mother is dead. It's hard to be a slut when you are a box of ashes.

Were she alive, I'd still laugh, because the offender doesn't know my mother, and is simply trying to appeal to my emotions. I'd be foolish to allow that, to play into his hands. Then I'd tell him that, as amusing as it is, I can tell he's just trying to get my goat...and she's a slut of the first caliber. So, he's welcome to her, come by around 8.

So you make zero distinction between the two phrases. Good.

 

[slingblade]

So you make zero distinction between the two phrases. Good.

Strawman.

You asked how a person would react. I told you how I'd react.

But I do see a distinction between the two, because there is one, and I can prove it with simple substitution. Let's first set our terms:

"Looks like a slut." Dress, casual behavior, and mannerisms correspond to those which many people tend to associate with promiscuous sexual behavior, regardless of actual sexual behavior.

"Is a slut." Engages in sexually promiscuous behavior, regardless of actual mannerisms or dress.

Substitution:

"Looks like a bank manager."
"Is a bank manager."

"Looks like a movie star."
"Is a movie star."

"Looks like a teacher."
"Is a teacher."

Yep. I can certainly see a vast difference in the two phrases. Absolutely.

But if you called my mom a slut, or just said she looks like one, I would still laugh at you, for the reasons I gave in that post.

 

[Cicero]

Strawman.

You asked how a person would react. I told you how I'd react.

But I do see a distinction between the two, because there is one, and I can prove it with simple substitution. Let's first set our terms:

"Looks like a slut." Dress, casual behavior, and mannerisms correspond to those which many people tend to associate with promiscuous sexual behavior, regardless of actual sexual behavior.

"Is a slut." Engages in sexually promiscuous behavior, regardless of actual mannerisms or dress.

Substitution:

"Looks like a bank manager."
"Is a bank manager."

"Looks like a movie star."
"Is a movie star."

"Looks like a teacher."
"Is a teacher."

Yep. I can certainly see a vast difference in the two phrases. Absolutely.

But if you called my mom a slut, or just said she looks like one, I would still laugh at you, for the reasons I gave in that post.

What does a bank manager look like?
What dioes a teacher look like?
Considering today's movie stars, what does a movie star look like?

Slut and warmonger not only have negative connotations, but are not amorphous as your examples, and no matter how you preface your accusation that someone is, or resembles, the description, they are both equally offensive and provoke a rebuke, physical or otherwise.

[Edited]

Violation of Rule 12: “Attack the argument, not the arguer." Having your opinion, claim or argument challenged, doubted or dismissed is not attacking the arguer.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LibraryLady

 

[slingblade]

[Edited]

Excuse me, but what did you just say to me?

 

[gdnp]

What does a bank manager look like?
What dioes a teacher look like?
Considering today's movie stars, what does a movie star look like?

Slut and warmonger not only have negative connotations, but are not amorphous as your examples, and no matter how you preface your accusation that someone is, or resembles, the description, they are both equally offensive and provoke a rebuke, physical or otherwise.

Sigh.

Looks like a child molester
Is a child molester

Looks like a gang banger
Is a gang banger.

Neither is a compliment, and Olberman's characterization of McCain was not meant to be a compliment. Duh. No one is claiming that Olbermann was complementing McCain. The statements are not, however, equally offensive, as you state. Therefore, it is incorrect to state, as you did, that "Olbermann called McCain a war monger"

If O'Reilley had claimed "Hillary is starting to dress like a slut." I would consider it an insult. I would not, however, start a thread entitled "O'Reilley calls Hillary a slut".

Is any of this sinking in?

 

[slingblade]

He's not here, right now. I can't imagine why not.

 

[gdnp]

Excuse me, but what did you just say to me?

Cicero once again falls back on tasteless ad hominems and insults as logic fails him.

I doubt the irony of his nom de web is apparent to him, or unapparent to others.

 

[Pookster]

In between your "ridiculing" and "moving" could you answer my previous question to you ...

No, because it's an irrelevant and idiotic question.

 

[Dr Adequate]

The US military is the model for racial acceptance and upward mobility.

Er ... you just said something that's actually true.

Are you ill, or was that merely a momentary lapse?

 

[Pookster]

Cicero is the same one who believes "looks like a slut" and "being a slut" are the same thing. It's impossible to discuss things with people who struggle with very simple stuff like that. You just ridicule them and/or move on.

Sigh.

Looks like a child molester
Is a child molester

Looks like a gang banger
Is a gang banger.

Neither is a compliment, and Olberman's characterization of McCain was not meant to be a compliment. Duh. No one is claiming that Olbermann was complementing McCain. The statements are not, however, equally offensive, as you state. Therefore, it is incorrect to state, as you did, that "Olbermann called McCain a war monger"

If O'Reilley had claimed "Hillary is starting to dress like a slut." I would consider it an insult. I would not, however, start a thread entitled "O'Reilley calls Hillary a slut".

Is any of this sinking in?

See what I mean?

 

[Cicero]

LOL. He does a pretty good job explaining it himself. It's called an apology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfFeZkWvJQY&NR=1

I'd be happy to parse it for you if it's not clear enough.

Here is E.D. Hill's apology for the "terrorist fist bump" question. If KO's apology erases what he said about Hillary, I'm sure you will feel the same way about Hill's mea culpa.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/199602.php

 

[Cicero]

He's not here, right now. I can't imagine why not.

1) I posed the question to pookster, not you.

2) I never mentioned your mother in any of my posts.

3) I am sorry for your loss. I have no idea how your deceased mother got into this discussion, but I apologize if you were offended in any way by mention of the word "cremation."

 

[gdnp]

Here is E.D. Hill's apology for the "terrorist fist bump" question. If KO's apology erases what he said about Hillary, I'm sure you will feel the same way about Hill's mea culpa.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/199602.php

Uh, Olbermann was making a point that Democratic leaders needed to take Hillary Clinton and pressure her into dropping out for the good of the party. In doing so, he used phraseology that could be interpreted as suggesting rape or murder. He apologized for that phraseology, as he should have. His comments were not, however, directly insulting to Mrs. Clinton. More equivalent to Clinton's references to Bobby Kennedy. Poorly phrased and tasteless, but not directly insulting.

E.D. Hill's suggestion that the Obama's participated in a "terrorist fist bump" is entirely different. Calling a candidate a terrorist, even in jest, is insulting.

So no, sorry, I do not think the two apologies are equivalent because the transgressions were not equivalent.

That being said, I would not have fired Hill for that statement.

 

[boloboffin]

If E.D. Hill could provide us with references to the gesture as a "terrorist fist jab" in the media before her statement, that might do it for me. Knowing what E.D. Hill considers the "media" would be enlightening.

Also, she clearly intended to associate Barack Obama with the idea of "terrorist," if only to show why such an association is specious. Although, since she didn't bring the word up again, her methodology for doing so is suspect.

 

[varwoche]

If E.D. Hill could provide us with references to the gesture as a "terrorist fist jab" in the media before her statement, that might do it for me. Knowing what E.D. Hill considers the "media" would be enlightening.

I was wondering the same thing and was unable to find any prior reference.

 

[Gene L]

Er ... you just said something that's actually true.

Are you ill, or was that merely a momentary lapse?

Dr. Adequate, that comment is juvenile. Well, highschool cheerleder juvenile.

Did you get your feelings hurt, fluffy?

Nyah, nyah, nyah...

 

[Cicero]

Uh, Olbermann was making a point that Democratic leaders needed to take Hillary Clinton and pressure her into dropping out for the good of the party. In doing so, he used phraseology that could be interpreted as suggesting rape or murder. He apologized for that phraseology, as he should have. His comments were not, however, directly insulting to Mrs. Clinton. More equivalent to Clinton's references to Bobby Kennedy. Poorly phrased and tasteless, but not directly insulting.

E.D. Hill's suggestion that the Obama's participated in a "terrorist fist bump" is entirely different. Calling a candidate a terrorist, even in jest, is insulting.

So no, sorry, I do not think the two apologies are equivalent because the transgressions were not equivalent.

That being said, I would not have fired Hill for that statement.

You seem to possess clairvoyant skills that the rest of us are not privy to. How do you know that Hillary did not find KO's comments "directly insulting?"
Do you have a quote from her responding to KO's comment?

Not excusing Hill's comment, but she put it in the form of a question. That may be a weaselly distinction, but no more than KO using "beginning to look like" before he hung the warmonger label on McCain and suggested Hillary be rubbed-out

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I would say both Hill and KO made, and KO will continue to make, despicable comments. To excuse one while impugning the other is not only not intellectually dishonest, it is transparently hypocritical.

 

[gdnp]

You seem to possess clairvoyant skills that the rest of us are not privy to. How do you know that Hillary did not find KO's comments "directly insulting?"
Do you have a quote from her responding to KO's comment?

Here is Olbermann's quote, from the transcript:

FINEMAN: Oh, I think there‘s been talk of retribution. I know there‘s been talk of retribution for weeks. Well, that‘s only beginning behind the scenes and that‘s what Democratic leaders, if that isn‘t a complete oxymoron is all about. That‘s what they‘re worried about.

What this is going to require, at some point, all of Chuck‘s excellent numbers aside, there‘s some adults somewhere in the Democratic Party to step in and stop this thing like a referee in a fight that could go on for 30 rounds. That‘s what‘s going on. Those are the super-super-superdelegates who are going to have to really decide this.

OLBERMANN: Right. The one—somebody who can take her in a room and only he comes out that kind of a question.
FINEMAN: Yes, exactly.

OLBERMANN: More voters may have thought Senator Clinton went too far with her attacks according to the exit polls: 67 percent, but half of them believe the same of Senator Obama. Does Obama fight back? How does he do it? Can he run an aggressive campaign without being seen as rising to the bait and does he maintain the step down for Clinton supporters that she doesn‘t care about in terms of Obama supporters?

How is this insulting to Mrs. Clinton? The only "insult" I see here is that he is stating that Clinton staying in the race was becoming damaging to the Democratic chances in November. This could be construed as a claim that she is more concerned about her own self-interest than the good of the Democratic party to the point that Democratic leaders need to lean on her pretty strongly. Many others held similar opinions at the time. Olbermann did not call Clinton names. He did not question her abilities. Or her patriotism. He simply questioned (in an inappropriate manner) the advisability of her staying in the race. Thus he apologized for the inappropriate phraseology, but not the sentiment.

Nothing like questioning whether someone was doing a "terrorist fist bump".