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Fox News racist or just hates Obama?
- Thread starter joobz
- Start date
You defined it one way, GreyIce defined it differently. I'm still not sure who is right, although GrayIce's definition seems a lot more concrete.
It doesn't matter how you, I, or GreyIce defines it, it matters how the newscaster personally defines it, which gives it context. If he or she meant an insult, certainly it's an insult. If it's a regional insult it may be known to that region but not others. Here, if you told someone she was a common girl, it would be an insult. Insult on the word "common" which has come to mean low class with women. However, a common man is not an insult at all, it means a "man of the people."
I think perhaps some jumped to conclusions on this before they looked into the wide abyss of interpretation.
It doesn't matter how you, I, or GreyIce defines it, it matters how the newscaster personally defines it, which gives it context. If he or she meant an insult, certainly it's an insult. If it's a regional insult it may be known to that region but not others. Here, if you told someone she was a common girl, it would be an insult. Insult on the word "common" which has come to mean low class with women. However, a common man is not an insult at all, it means a "man of the people."
I think perhaps some jumped to conclusions on this before they looked into the wide abyss of interpretation.
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
Maybe not on your planet. Here on earth, however...
Do you still deny that there is a big difference between saying "McCain is starting to sound like a war monger" and "McCain is a warmonger?"
You see, war monger is modified by the word "starting." Meaning not completely, not even mostly, but at the beginning.
Also, it is modified by the words "sound like". "sound like" is not "is". Just as "look like" is not "is". To say someone "looks like" a chipmunk implies that the person possesses facial characteristics of a chipmunk. It does not imply that they are actually a chipmunk, or that they possess any of the other characteristics that chipmunks possess, such as hibernating and collecting nuts.
So to say that someone "sounds like a warmonger" implies that the person is using phrases one might expect war mongers to use. It does not imply that they possess other characteristics of war mongers. Such an expression might be used as an admonition. Essentially, one is stating that if McCain continues on his current tack people may start to believe that he is a war monger. Which is far different than calling him a war monger.
Starting to get this yet?
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Just because you received your language diploma from the William Jefferson School of Parsing doesn't change Olbermann's well deserved persona as a venal vapid verbose vitriolic vacuous viper.
A sissy? I haven't heard that word since grammar school.
I would take that as an admonition that the level of my debate may be faltering and that when one argues with children it is best not to sink to their level.
Do you believe it is as offensive to state that someone is starting to sound like a sissy as it would be to state that someone is a sissy? Because that is what you have done by misquoting Olbermann.
To follow up on my previous reply, would it be offensive to state that you are beginning to sound like Gene L's sock puppet with a thesaurus?
joobz
Tergiversator
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2006
- Messages
- 17,998
And, while I respect GrayIce, he was wrong in this matter. It is offensive for someone to use such a colloquially personal descriptor of a woman on a newscast. Especially one whose origins imply unmarried status.
ETA: are you seriously claiming that
isn't concrete?
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A lot of apples and oranges are being tossed around together and I think it would be useful to make some distinctions. There are (at least) two categories of transgression being discussed here:
1) Spreading lies: Obama was raised as a Muslim and he attended a madrassa.
2) Use of rhetoric/hyperbole: McCain is starting to sound like a warmonger.
As to the rhetoric, here's the problem:
I don't think that warmonger is a wise or fair choice of terms because it's so incendiary. A more reasonable choice of words might be something along the lines of "John McCain advocates policies that may lead to another war" or the like.
That said, is "warmonger" such a loaded term that it should be completely out of bounds?
[/SIZE]
See, it's not so clear. [/SIZE]
I'll come back to this subject later on as pertaining to "crazy".
1) Spreading lies: Obama was raised as a Muslim and he attended a madrassa.
2) Use of rhetoric/hyperbole: McCain is starting to sound like a warmonger.
As to the rhetoric, here's the problem:
I don't think that warmonger is a wise or fair choice of terms because it's so incendiary. A more reasonable choice of words might be something along the lines of "John McCain advocates policies that may lead to another war" or the like.
That said, is "warmonger" such a loaded term that it should be completely out of bounds?
[SIZE=-1] McCain? Sounds about right.Princeton dictionary said:
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1] McCain? Sounds about right (the first part of the OR at least).Farlex Dictionary said:
See, it's not so clear. [/SIZE]
I'll come back to this subject later on as pertaining to "crazy".
I understand how an alliteration might appear extravagant to a graduate of the WJC School of Parsing, especially when you spent an entire semester on the definition of "is." However, it is "Countdown" that actually has a segment called sock puppet theater. According to KO, this type of bafoonery was on the same journalistic plane as Tim Russert's "Meet the Press."
As KO's press agent, a perfect job for someone who doesn't even watch "Countdown," could you explain the "true" meaning your client used when he called for the rub out of Hillary?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGBUQq3CVYU
jooba:
No, I'm saying unless you know it's a demeaning term, it isn't. If I said "How's the baby's mom?" to my daughter, it wouldn't be demeaning at all, and the slang dictionary (and some of the posters here) say it could be used other than demeaning.
It came into culture in the 90s, which is why I've never heard of it.
Do you believe a Fox newscaster seriously intened to imply that Barak and Michelle Obama were not married, when everyone else knows they are? That's pretty dumb.
gdnp, you said:
I don't think I misquoted Olbermann, because I can't, to my recall, remember quoting him in the first place. If I did, please show me where I did, and I'll take full responsibility for the misquote.
No, I'm saying unless you know it's a demeaning term, it isn't. If I said "How's the baby's mom?" to my daughter, it wouldn't be demeaning at all, and the slang dictionary (and some of the posters here) say it could be used other than demeaning.
It came into culture in the 90s, which is why I've never heard of it.
Do you believe a Fox newscaster seriously intened to imply that Barak and Michelle Obama were not married, when everyone else knows they are? That's pretty dumb.
gdnp, you said:
I don't think I misquoted Olbermann, because I can't, to my recall, remember quoting him in the first place. If I did, please show me where I did, and I'll take full responsibility for the misquote.
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Since apples and oranges are both fruit, there really is not that much distinction between them.
But while you and Upchurch were skeptical about KO calling McCain a "warmonger," and couldn't for the life of you find said comments, after reading MSNBC's own transcript, you not only admit KO did indeed use the term "warmonger" in conjunction with McCain's policies, but that it was an accurate and fair description.
Game, set, match.
Still waiting for you to get your ducks in a row to do the FOX News challenge.
Earth paging the planet that Cicero posts from...
varwoche said:
Followed by this bit of comedy gold:
Yah sure.Cicero said:
Good. Just as a heads-up, step one will be asking you to get your ducks in a row, since you (and Gene) are the ones making assertions re Fox v. MSNBC. (Please be patient though -- I'm not sure how soon I can get to this.)
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My apologies. It was Cicero who misquoted Olbermann. You simply defended it as not making any difference. My mistake.
I "misquoted" KO? I am the only one posting KO's own words from MSNBC's own transcripts. Would it be too much for you to cite where I ever changed KO's golden nuggets of noxious nonsense?
Wow. How many straw men and ad hominems can one place in a single paragraph?
LOL. He does a pretty good job explaining it himself. It's called an apology.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfFeZkWvJQY&NR=1
I'd be happy to parse it for you if it's not clear enough.
Not necessary for them to do it. You lose, absolutely, completely, and without possible recovery, every time St. Hannity of O'Really shoots off its dishonest and imbalanced self. Each time, by itself, constitutes a thorough and utter defeat for you.
So give it up. Fox News is indeed Faux News, it's fake, its sensationalist, it's biased on purpose, and it grandstands to help churn FUD for Rupert's buddies.
I see the "Mother Allegedly Skinned Caged Son, Fed Him to Family" on the front page today, but nothing about our poor kids dying in Iraq. (n.b. the cage story is from somewhere in Czech territory)
Lurker
Illuminator
- Joined
- May 15, 2002
- Messages
- 4,189
I am not so sure that we could not point to a single racist @ FoxNews. Sean Hannity used to regularly take calls from a white supremacist and was friends with him. Further, Hannity will go to all lengths to excuse and rehabilitate white people accused of racist actions (Dog the Bounty Hunter, Mel Gibson, etc...) yet Sean will roundly condemn black people that he feels use race in their speech.
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
Now, to lighten the mood a bit, The O'Reilly Factor in 60 seconds.