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Find me petitions, please!

Oystein said:
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Some recognizable names (well, Jon recognizes them, I recognize only some) among the signatures are:

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Chris Sarns
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Hehe: No longer. Jon deleted Chris Sarns. Chris had beefed up his signature with a comment that WTC7 is the smoking gun.
Seems like Jon Gold disagrees :D
 
Oystein said:
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Michiel has this irrational hope that this would "go viral":

Haha! I documented another petition in my blog that one particular truther hoped would go viral: http://oystein-debate.blogspot.de/2012/06/monitoring-truther-petition-about-wtc7.html
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O noes - Jon Gold dives into that delusion head-on now with a new post at 911Blogger:
http://www.911blogger.com/news/2012-08-09/great-start
Jon Gold said:
I am hoping this statement goes viral. I am hoping that millions sign it. Can you imagine how powerful a statement that would be? I am hoping that people still care enough to do so.
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He'll be in for a HUGE disappointment. Already yesterday, the steam was going out of this thing - 21 signatures in a day is the worst he had in the first five full days this petition was out, and it's a no-brainer to predict that this will have fizzled out to the usual <2/day by the end of the month. He wants 1,000,000, but 'll never make 1,000. The gap between his imagination and reality will be astounding. To illustrate: This box has 100x100 = 10,000 pixels. Let each pixel represent 100 signatures. The 10 red pixels then represent the 1,000 signatures that Jon will never reach, the 9,990 gray pixels represent what's missing to get to his imagined million.

10in10000.png



ETA: He posted the same text on Cindy Sheehan's blog:
http://cindysheehanssoapbox.blogspot.de/2012/08/off-to-great-start.html

I just wrote a comment, which is awaiting moderation. It shall be interesting to see if it gets approved:

Jon,

in recent months (since march) I have monitored four other petitions for 9/11 Truth issues. Only one exceeded 1,000 signatures, two are stuck under 200 after several months, and one (ae911t's "President Obama, 9/11 families ask you to watch Gage video") is under 700 after seven weeks and slowly growing at just 4 or 5 per day. The others are practically stuck where they are.

The truth of the matter is: These petitions don't go viral. They just don't. You are climbing out on a limb by announcing your hope for "millions" to make the statement "powerful", but what if you stay well below 1,000? Will you then concede that the statement is "powerless"?

Aren't you worried that these petitions actually document how small, irrelevant and uninterested 9/11 Truth is in the reality of 2012?

The one recent petition that got more than 1,000 signatures was started by ae911t's Mark Graham, and promoted at 911Blogger. Poster "kawika" did what you did: Hope this would go viral and reach a million. I documented the huge gap between dream and reality in my blog:
Monitoring Truther Petition about WTC7 at Avaaz

This was my conclusion:
"Those truthers who expect their petitions and news and everything to go viral, grow exponentially, gain momentum, have impact, are seriously out of contact with reality. As with many of the irrelevant petitions at Avaaz and other platforms, such initiatives loose steam only days after they are first announced and spread. It appears that the Truth Movement cannot muster more than a few thousand individuals world-wide to even fill out a form on the internet."​
 
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I see the comment was allowed, and you've had a bit of a discussion.

Jon Gold said:
As I wrote in my article entitled "The Facts Speak For Themselves, "we don’t need to come up with a narrative (theory) because our facts speak for themselves." All we have to do is show that the investigations we got into 9/11 were compromised and corrupt, that we were lied to about a great many things about that day, and that there needs to be real accountability and justice. Ya know... real accountability. If you were working at a job, and you screwed up, costing the company millions, you would be held accountable. Not rewarded, and not promoted. If people in our Government were "negligent," then they need to be held accountable for that "negligence."
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I don't understand this vindictiveness at all.

Those who dropped the ball leading up to 9/11 surely will suffer for the rest of their lives knowing something they didn't do caused such violence.

Firing them after 9/11 would have placed the US and the world in an even more vulnerable state. These people knew the ropes, and the pitfalls of the intelligence culture. They have demonstrated that they have worked on these pitfalls and have prevented any terror attacks in the US ever since.

Calling for retribution is the mark of a small, petty mind.

It also implies to me that Jon Gold has been a "Truther" for so long, he just wants something to show for it, no matter how petty that is.
 
Orphia Nay said:
I don't understand this vindictiveness at all.

Those who dropped the ball leading up to 9/11 surely will suffer for the rest of their lives knowing something they didn't do caused such violence.

Firing them after 9/11 would have placed the US and the world in an even more vulnerable state. These people knew the ropes, and the pitfalls of the intelligence culture. They have demonstrated that they have worked on these pitfalls and have prevented any terror attacks in the US ever since.

Calling for retribution is the mark of a small, petty mind.

It also implies to me that Jon Gold has been a "Truther" for so long, he just wants something to show for it, no matter how petty that is.
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I do understand the vindictiveness. What I don't understand is what he wants in actionable terms. He's too vague about what actual change he wants, and what "accountability" means specifically. What a "new ivestigation" is supposed to investigate, who will bear the cost and who will benefit in what way. Jon admits he doesn't know what the truth is that he is seeking. This really means that he doesn't even know IF there is anything of great interest yet to be discovered. He is chasing mirages.
 
Orphia Nay said:
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It has 2716 signatures and is just short of its goal of 3000. :)
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These petition websites choose and adjust these "goals" automatically - these are not real goals. Once 3000 is reached, the system will automatically change the goal to some next-highest "round" number.
 
Orphia Nay said:
On the topic of other petitions...

Here's one that started on July 27.

Demand the Australian Government End Puppy Factories in Australia

It has 2716 signatures and is just short of its goal of 3000. :)
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Oystein said:
These petition websites choose and adjust these "goals" automatically - these are not real goals. Once 3000 is reached, the system will automatically change the goal to some next-highest "round" number.
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It now has 10,973 signatures and a goal of 11,000.

I just did a search for
"demand-the-australian-government-ban-puppy-farms-in-australia" (quotes included).

Came up with 22 sites that link to that one. It does not include this forum so I probably missed a few. Now do a search for some of the 9/11 petitions. I predict you will not find so many links. More evidence that 9/11 truth is not very popular.
 
Oystein said:
Jon Gold, activist for some of the victims' family members, has started yet another petition:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/statement-for-911-justice

Started on august 4th with 20 signatures
Continued in the days that followed with 79, 64, 66 and 36, so the usual downward trend already there. They are currently at 271
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Currently 479. By day:
Aug 09: 21
Aug 10: 32
Aug 11: 44
Aug 12: 39
Aug 13: 18
Aug 14: 26
Aug 15: 10
Aug 16: 21

Jon got 318 signatures in the first week, 161 in the second (so far, with day 7 just begun), so sorry, Jon, this didn't go viral just yet! At the pace of the past 6 days, it would take 20 more days (till sep 05) to get to 1000.

I predict that Jon will get fewer and fewer signatures per day, and not reach 1000 before october 1st, if ever. Contrast that with his own imagination that it could go into the "millions" (plural!).
 
Debra Burlingame - "I am asking all my Facebook friends to go the this website and sign the petition to pass the JASTA bill, which would allow 9/11 victims to sue the government of Saudi Arabia for its role in the 9/11 attacks. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (where 15 of the 19 hijackers were from) funded and facilitated the attacks, even deploying Omar Bayoumi--a Saudi agent in San Diego--to assist two of the hijackers on my brother's plane. Please sign the petition and post this link on your FB page. Thank you."

http://www.justiceagainstterrorism.org/




;)
 
shure said:
Debra Burlingame - "I am asking all my Facebook friends to go the this website and sign the petition to pass the JASTA bill, which would allow 9/11 victims to sue the government of Saudi Arabia for its role in the 9/11 attacks. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (where 15 of the 19 hijackers were from) funded and facilitated the attacks, even deploying Omar Bayoumi--a Saudi agent in San Diego--to assist two of the hijackers on my brother's plane. Please sign the petition and post this link on your FB page. Thank you."

http://www.justiceagainstterrorism.org/




;)
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Thanks :)

When was this started? Last december, or thereabouts? Petition had 1627 signatures when I first looked at it. Couldn't find a list of names, unfortunately.

In the meantime, it has grown to by 2 to 1629 - after two gentleman, Mr. Santa Clause and Rudolph Reindeer signed. You see, you can increase the counter by just entering a first name, last name, ZIP code. No address, no phone, not even an email address.

I can't take this very serious. With just the name, there is no way to confirm the validity of the signatures. With no publicly accessible list of names, anyone can pimp the number at their heart's desire and then go on and make up a list with names.
 
Oystein: Since I'm still a bit bored, I have just noticed this SnowCrash post in the truthaction thread dealing with a new truther's petition:

"Tell that dateless nerd Oystein he should start a debunker petition of his own and see how far he gets with it."

Perhaps quite interesting idea (but I'm not sure if really new one).
Just hypothetically, what would be a content of such our "debunker" petition? Any proposals?
And how quickly we would gather let say thousands of signatures?
 
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Debunkers don't need to start a petition. The failure of all the twoof petitions is proof enough.

Besides, who would we be petitioning? We'd need to be calling on someone to do something.

We're quite happy laughing at all the truthers who accomplish nothing. :D
 
Oystein said:
...In the meantime, it has grown to by 2 to 1629 - after two gentleman, Mr. Santa Clause and Rudolph Reindeer signed. You see, you can increase the counter by just entering a first name, last name, ZIP code. No address, no phone, not even an email address.

I can't take this very serious. With just the name, there is no way to confirm the validity of the signatures. With no publicly accessible list of names, anyone can pimp the number at their heart's desire and then go on and make up a list with names.
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Including persons who cannot spell their own name? :boggled:
 
Ivan, that wouldn't work. Just like the Twoof Movement is tiny and irrelevant, so is the "debunker movement". They are a handful of people, we are a handful of people.
However, theirs is a cause supposedly of dramatic impact and life-changing importance, ours is a cause of mere curiosity and scientific interest. SnowCrash is perhaps correct to call me a nerd - debunking da Twoof is a nerdy hobby, not a political movement. See the asymmetry?

So what would be the content of such a petition? Call on the government to do nothing because everything is fine already?
 
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