Federal courts keep ruling against new gun laws

[arthwollipot]

Thats the thing. The VAST majority of people who apply for a CCW do so with at least moderately* good intentions. Then when someone cuts them off on the freeway on their way home after they got chewed out by their boss, in a momentary lapse they do the unthinkable.

*I say that because a significant minotiry are "looking for an excuse".

Guns don't prevent violence. What they do is make violence more lethal.

Without guns, two drivers with road rage might get into a punchup on the side of the highway. With guns, you've got one or possibly two dead drivers.

Guns don't kill people. Guns make it easy for people to kill people.

 

[smartcooky]

Oh my.... think about the children!!!!!


LOL!!!!

Whatever. Name one single mass-shooting at a school that was done by someone using a handgun with a concealed carry permit.

Just one.

The Virginia Tech shooting was carried out with two handguns, a Glock 19 and a Walther P22..... 32 deaths, 27 injuries.

Your concealed carry condition is both stupid and irrelevant, since it would not have mattered whether the shooter had one or not.

Besides, most people who object to guns do not so much object to concealed carry permits for hand guns, they object to the ease with which powerful, semi-automatic weapons can be obtained with little or no qualification, training or background checks. This enables people with KNOWN mental issues, and/or a KNOWN history of domestic violence, and/or a KNOWN criminal history to be able to get their hands on weapons that are designed for one purpose, and one purpose only... to kill the greatest number of people in the shortest possible time.

There is little wonder the world calls mass and school shootings "The American Disease"!!

 

[smartcooky]

The VAST majority of murders over the last decade were NOT committed by people with a concealed carry permit, according to the following gun control org.

.0065 of murders committed by permit holders, in fact. Clearly permit holders are not the real problem here.

https://witnessla.com/concealed-car...-killed-more-than-1300-people-in-last-decade/

So what?

Less than 0.00000001% of all gun murders were committed by Chinese dry-cleaning shop owners.

Less than 0.0000005% of all gun murders were committed by immigrant fruit-pickers.

Those two statistics have one thing in common with yours.. they are all meaningless.

 

[Hercules56]

So what?

Less than 0.00000001% of all gun murders were committed by Chinese dry-cleaning shop owners.

Less than 0.0000005% of all gun murders were committed by immigrant fruit-pickers.

Those two statistics have one thing in common with yours.. they are all meaningless.

People with handgun permits are not the problem.

Murders might go down if all 50 states required permit, training, classes, exams to possess a handgun.

 

[Thermal]

I'm not seeing highly trained murderers as being a huge plus.

 

[Hercules56]

I'm not seeing highly trained murderers as being a huge plus.

Or...it will keep a lot of people from getting guns who shouldn't have them.

 

[Thermal]

Or...it will keep a lot of people from getting guns who shouldn't have them.

You mean there will be a questionnaire asking "are you going to murder?" Cuz I can see that solving the problem.

 

[Hercules56]

You mean there will be a questionnaire asking "are you going to murder?" Cuz I can see that solving the problem.

Cute, but dumb.

 

[Norman Alexander]

You mean there will be a questionnaire asking "are you going to murder?" Cuz I can see that solving the problem.

TBH, if you are applying for a gun permit and it is not for a historic or work-related purpose where it will be properly secured, the chances are actually increased that the highlighted will come true, either by the gun-owner, the family, someone they know well, or someone who will steal the weapon. One gun can become very readily available to multiple people all too easily.

 

[Thermal]

Cute, but dumb.

No, it's Truth. My fair NJ, as I am always quick to point to out, has some of the nation's lowest gun violence, yet we have all the elements that should have us piling up the body bags like cordwood. Every county in Jersey is designated as urban, which we are told fosters gun violence. So what is The Garden State doing differently?

No carry.

 

[smartcooky]

People with handgun permits are not the problem.

Murders might go down if all 50 states required permit, training, classes, exams to possess a handgun.

Bwahahahaha... what "training, classes, exams"? 27 of your 50 states have "permitless carry" - that means no additional training for people carrying guns!!

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Maine
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
New Hampshire
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
West Virginia
Wyoming

The rest of them have minimalist training that anyone could pass.

 

[arthwollipot]

Or...it will keep a lot of people from getting guns who shouldn't have them.

You know there are other ways to do that, right? Ways that actually work?

 

[Hercules56]

Bwahahahaha... what "training, classes, exams"? 27 of your 50 states have "permitless carry" - that means no additional training for people carrying guns!!

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Maine
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
New Hampshire
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
West Virginia
Wyoming

The rest of them have minimalist training that anyone could pass.

No one here is talking about Constitutional Carry, try to focus.

 

[Hercules56]

No, it's Truth. My fair NJ, as I am always quick to point to out, has some of the nation's lowest gun violence, yet we have all the elements that should have us piling up the body bags like cordwood. Every county in Jersey is designated as urban, which we are told fosters gun violence. So what is The Garden State doing differently?

No carry.

200,000 NJ residents have applied for carry permits since the Bruen decision.

 

[Thermal]

200,000 NJ residents have applied for carry permits since the Bruen decision.

And there will be more. Erectile dysfunction effects many.

Also, we will be seeing Jersey move up in the gun violence department. I mean, it's statistically inevitable. When you go from virtually no guns on the street to hundreds of thousands, it's a lock. The betting window is open if posters would like to lose money to me. .

 

[smartcooky]

No one here is talking about Constitutional Carry.

Irrelevant. There is no functional difference.

The end result is that a bunch of random Joe Rambos will get to carry guns, and those who don't make the grade, and want to go armed, will carry guns anyway.

The problem in the US is NOT, repeat NOT down to some imaginary difference between those who do and those who don't have carry permits, its down to the number of guns and how easy they are to get.

There is a direct correlation between the the number of shootings and the strength of the gun laws... the tighter the laws, the lower the shooting rates

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroo...us-states-with-more-relaxed-gun-control-laws/

"....from 2010 onwards, the gap between permissive and restrictive states started to widen, with rates falling in restrictive states and rising in permissive states.

Levels of gun ownership were also significantly associated with mass shooting rates.

After taking account of key factors, a 10 unit increase in state gun law permissiveness, as defined by the scale, was associated with an 11.5% higher rate of mass shootings.

These findings held true, even when different factors were accounted for and whether or not the mass shootings were perpetrated by someone in a close relationship with the victims.

And a 10% increase in gun ownership was associated with a more than 35% higher rate of mass shootings."​

 

[Hercules56]

Irrelevant. There is no functional difference.

The end result is that a bunch of random Joe Rambos will get to carry guns, and those who don't make the grade, and want to go armed, will carry guns anyway.

The problem in the US is NOT, repeat NOT down to some imaginary difference between those who do and those who don't have carry permits, its down to the number of guns and how easy they are to get.

There is a direct correlation between the the number of shootings and the strength of the gun laws... the tighter the laws, the lower the shooting rates

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroo...us-states-with-more-relaxed-gun-control-laws/

"....from 2010 onwards, the gap between permissive and restrictive states started to widen, with rates falling in restrictive states and rising in permissive states.

Levels of gun ownership were also significantly associated with mass shooting rates.

After taking account of key factors, a 10 unit increase in state gun law permissiveness, as defined by the scale, was associated with an 11.5% higher rate of mass shootings.

These findings held true, even when different factors were accounted for and whether or not the mass shootings were perpetrated by someone in a close relationship with the victims.

And a 10% increase in gun ownership was associated with a more than 35% higher rate of mass shootings."​

There is zero evidence that mass-shootings have increased because gun laws got looser. Mass-shootings have increased because we watered down the definition of "mass-shooting". Luckily states like New York have decided to start codifying an actual definition for mass shooting.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

There is zero evidence that mass-shootings have increased because gun laws got looser. Mass-shootings have increased because we watered down the definition of "mass-shooting". Luckily states like New York have decided to start codifying an actual definition for mass shooting.

Who is "we?"

Can you demonstrate the definition of mass shooting was changed in the cited reference?

 

[Hercules56]

Who is "we?"

Can you demonstrate the definition of mass shooting was changed in the cited reference?

Yes, mass-shooting used to mean 4+ people killed on same shooting event, unrelated to gang violence or crime. Then a non-profit anti-gun group changed it to 4+ people shot in same event including gang and criminal violence. And lots of groups and media followed suit cuz it made the problem look MUCH worse than it really is.

But now folks have decided to go back to the stricter more discriminating definition of 4+ people killed.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Or...it will keep a lot of people from getting guns who shouldn't have them.

Not being allowed to have gun at all would work even better.
At least, that's the conclusion the rest of the western world has drawn and shown.

Besides, why would anyone need a concealed carry? If you are protecting someone having your gun be visible would work better. And there is no real reason to hide your gun otherwise.