Federal courts keep ruling against new gun laws

[Hercules56]

Federal court recently did a lot of damage to New York's new handgun law. California's new handgun law is completely obliterated this morning.

Apparently federal judges believe that people have the constitutional right to carry handguns for self-defense in public.

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/21/1220...nning-carrying-firearms-in-most-public-places

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/08/politics/new-york-gun-law-appeals-court/index.html

 

[JoeMorgue]

Tell the Supreme Court they won't have armed guards protecting them 24/7 for one day and see how long that lasts.

 

[Hercules56]

Tell the Supreme Court they won't have armed guards protecting them 24/7 for one day and see how long that lasts.

Exactly. Why do they deserve armed personal protection but you and I don't?

Even before Bruen, politicians, wealthy people and so-called VIPs could easily get a concealed carry license and protect themselves pretty much anywhere, even in our biggest cities. Its terribly unfair and suggests that some lives are more valuable than others.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Exactly. Why do they deserve armed personal protection but you and I don't?

Even before Bruen, politicians, wealthy people and so-called VIPs could easily get a concealed carry license and protect themselves pretty much anywhere, even in our biggest cities. Its terribly unfair and suggests that some lives are more valuable than others.

Because American's can't be trusted to not shoot up a school room every other day. Please stop acting like this is hard to understand.

 

[Hercules56]

Because American's can't be trusted to not shoot up a school room every other day. Please stop acting like this is hard to understand.

So you're cool with politicians, wealthy people and VIPs being able to protect themselves with guns, but not regular people? Scary when folks support such a two-class society.

BTW there are many states where concealed carry is very common and mass-shootings and crime is very UNCOMMON.

 

[JoeMorgue]

So you're cool with politicians, wealthy people and VIPs being able to protect themselves with guns, but not regular people? Scary when folks support such a two-class society.

Pathetic.

I'm cool with doing what literally every other civilized country has done to not have children being mass murdered be a common occurrence.

You want a two class society, the classes are just "dead school children" and "sad pathetic men who need a gun to feel macho."

 

[Hercules56]

Pathetic.

I'm cool with doing what literally every other civilized country has done to not have children being mass murdered be a common occurrence.

You want a two class society, the classes are just "dead school children" and "sad pathetic men who need a gun to feel macho."

Oh my.... think about the children!!!!!


LOL!!!!

Whatever. Name one single mass-shooting at a school that was done by someone using a handgun with a concealed carry permit.

Just one.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Oh my.... think about the children!!!!!

....you really think that was a good comeback? I mean really?

 

[Trausti]

So you're cool with politicians, wealthy people and VIPs being able to protect themselves with guns, but not regular people? Scary when folks support such a two-class society.

Should question the motives of those who want law-abiding people to be defenseless and disarmed.

 

[Hercules56]

....you really think that was a good comeback? I mean really?

Whatever. Name one single mass-shooting at a school that was done by someone using a handgun with a concealed carry permit.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Oh my.... think about the children!!!!!


LOL!!!!

Whatever. Name one single mass-shooting at a school that was done by someone using a handgun with a concealed carry permit.

Just one.

I rather doubt that people apply for a concealed carry permit for the sole purpose of killing children. The real problem is having any kind of permits for handguns at all where they are not genuinely needed. In civilised countries, rich people don't carry guns or need bodyguards. We have safer societies instead.

 

[lobosrul5]

I rather doubt that people apply for a concealed carry permit for the sole purpose of killing children. The real problem is having any kind of permits for handguns at all where they are not genuinely needed. In civilised countries, rich people don't carry guns or need bodyguards. We have safer societies instead.

Thats the thing. The VAST majority of people who apply for a CCW do so with at least moderately* good intentions. Then when someone cuts them off on the freeway on their way home after they got chewed out by their boss, in a momentary lapse they do the unthinkable.

*I say that because a significant minotiry are "looking for an excuse".

 

[Donal]

Hercules is right. Ban all gun ownership.

 

[Trausti]

I rather doubt that people apply for a concealed carry permit for the sole purpose of killing children. The real problem is having any kind of permits for handguns at all where they are not genuinely needed. In civilised countries, rich people don't carry guns or need bodyguards. We have safer societies instead.

This is one of the bubbles on this issue. If you live in a safe, law-abiding, neighborhood, you might not understand why people feel the need to protect themselves. But there are plenty of places in the US you can move to that will disabuse you of that viewpoint.

 

[Trausti]

Hercules is right. Ban all gun ownership.

Along with murder. That definitely should be banned.

 

[Donal]

Generally, part of the problem with those places is the abundance of firearms.

 

[Trausti]

Generally, part of the problem with those places is the abundance of firearms.

The States with the highest gun ownership - Montana, Wyoming, New Hampshire - also have the lowest gun homicide. Don’t blame guns for failed soft-on-crime policies.

 

[Donal]

The States with the highest gun ownership - Montana, Wyoming, New Hampshire - also have the lowest gun homicide. Don’t blame guns for failed soft-on-crime policies.

Wyoming and Montana were both top 10 for gun deaths in the US for 2021. Take a look at the bottom of the list.

As for the "soft on crime" dog whistle, violent crime rates seem to run the entirety of the political spectrum, with poverty being a better indicator, although not 1 to 1.

And here is where I add the caveat about gun and crime statistics being murky at best

 

[Hercules56]

Thats the thing. The VAST majority of people who apply for a CCW do so with at least moderately* good intentions. Then when someone cuts them off on the freeway on their way home after they got chewed out by their boss, in a momentary lapse they do the unthinkable.

*I say that because a significant minotiry are "looking for an excuse".

The VAST majority of murders over the last decade were NOT committed by people with a concealed carry permit, according to the following gun control org.

.0065 of murders committed by permit holders, in fact. Clearly permit holders are not the real problem here.

https://witnessla.com/concealed-car...-killed-more-than-1300-people-in-last-decade/

 

[plague311]

And here is where I add the caveat about gun and crime statistics being murky at best

Which, to republicans like Hercules and Trausti, is a feature, not a bug. If the crotch extensions were so awesome, safe, improved society, and made life better all around, then why are Republicans so against doing research\gathering statistics? If they allowed research it would debunk the ridiculous notion that guns make places any safer at all.

Like Chicago, guns all over the place, along with gun laws, but for some reason crime is high. If, as Hercule suggests, that guns decrease crime then has no one told Chicago?