• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Destiny and Free will

Emre_1974tr said:
God knows what you will choose with your free will, how you will react to which option, and He writes the script accordingly.
Click to expand...
You probably don't know what "free will" means.

If you have free will then nobody can control your choices. Not other people, spirits, angels, demons, ... not even God himself. Obviously, the odds that you will make a particular choice can be greatly influenced by your circumstances but the choice is yours to make and yours alone.

If God knows what choices you are going to make beforehand then he hasn't given you the free will to make alternate choices.
 
psionl0 said:
.

If God knows what choices you are going to make beforehand then he hasn't given you the free will to make alternate choices.
Click to expand...

No, on the contrary. Here it is known what you will choose with your free will and I have explained it.

Now you have written this answer to me of your free will and I know what you have written. For God, who is timeless, there is no distinction of future, past. He knew what you were going to write even before you wrote this. You could have not written it or you could have done something else, but you did not. That is what is known, what you did with your own will.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
No, on the contrary. Here it is known what you will choose with your free will and I have explained it.

Now you have written this answer to me of your free will and I know what you have written. For God, who is timeless, there is no distinction of future, past. He knew what you were going to write even before you wrote this. You could have not written it or you could have done something else, but you did not. That is what is known, what you did with your own will.
Click to expand...

What you are "explaining" is only the illusion of free will.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
Read and learn.
Click to expand...

Learning requires discernment. Know how to tell the difference between something that is evidence based and crap pulled out of the ass of a bronze age camel jockey.

If you really want to learn, ignore just about everything written more than a few hundred years ago. Mohammad was a superstitious moron. Quit following a stupid and ignorant child rapist.
 
Last edited:
Emre_1974tr said:
No. God knows what you will choose with your free will, how you will react to which option, and He writes the script accordingly. For example, He knew before He created you whether you would pray or not, what you would ask for in your prayer, and He wrote the answer to your prayer in your destiny.


https://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=3845.0
Click to expand...


Actually I think that (the highlight) still leaves you with the same problem, i.e. it still takes away anyone's freewill ...

... for example/explanation - you are claiming that even before you were born, God knew everything that you would ever do ... right? That's what you are claiming?

But in that case the person never had a free will to do anything, because it had already been determined for you. That is - if all your actions were already pre-determined, then nothing that you ever did could be changed by your own free will ... you would be forced unknowingly to do what God had already determined for you ... you could not change that (according to your own claims).
 
GDon said:
That sounds unfair. Why wouldn't Allah wait two more years, so that the man dies as a believer?
Click to expand...

UHm, presumably, God, knowing all the facts both past and future, won't have to wait.

Hans
 
Emre_1974tr said:
That's what I explained in my article.

Because God knows what you will do in total, even if you are tested forever. He knows what you deserve even before He created you. And in these two days of trials we have a miniature confrontation with ourselves.
Click to expand...

While this makes sense in pure logic, it makes our existence quite devoid of purpose.

Hans
 
Emre_1974tr said:
I explained:

https://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=3845.0

As for your second question (though I have explained this too in pages and pages of detail on my page, but you don't want to read it); of course, he may not create you if he wants to, but the aim is for you to get what you deserve. If you are one of the bad ones, you will go to hell, and if you are one of the good ones, you will go to paradise. And God, knowing what you deserve, creates you exactly to get you there.
Click to expand...

SO, the god, knowing in advance how we will be, creates us and punishes us if we are not created right?

hans
 
Emre_1974tr said:
The goal is to get what you deserve. If you are a tyrant who chooses evil of your own free will, then you were created for hell.

It is justice, goodness and mercy that the bad go to hell as the good go to paradise.
Click to expand...

Since the god already knows where we will go, why create us at all?

(This is fun. Too bad Emre will ignore it).

Hans
 
So, out of curiosity, are the Sunni or the Shi'ites the right kind of Muslims?

Because if your god cannot even get his own believers to use their free will to choose correctly, isn't it time to switch worship to something that can?
 
Emre_1974tr said:
Allah creates human beings in the most beautiful way. He gives them free will equal to evil and good. But that person chooses evil of his own free will. God knows even before He creates him that he will choose evil and He creates him to get what he deserves.

Just as it is beautiful to create the good for heaven, it is equally beautiful to give the bad what they deserve.

By the way, the suffering in the world is also because of the sins and evil of the people.

Peace
Click to expand...

If people are created in the most beautiful way, why would any of them choose to be evil? Surely the god can create all to not be evil. ... So if ane are evil, the god must have created them so, but why then punish them for what the god has done to them?


Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
This at least makes some kind of sense: Having free will, and an omniscient knowing what we will opt to do, are not mutually exclusive.

On the other hand, it is not very useful.

Hans
Click to expand...

I would disagree. If any entity, no matter how magical, can determine what choices you will make beforehand then those choices are, by definition predetermined. Therefore there cannot be free will.

Omniscience of future events and free will cannot co-exist.
 
Last edited:
Emre_1974tr said:
Allah creates human beings in the most beautiful way. He gives them free will equal to evil and good. But that person chooses evil of his own free will. God knows even before He creates him that he will choose evil and He creates him to get what he deserves.

Just as it is beautiful to create the good for heaven, it is equally beautiful to give the bad what they deserve.

By the way, the suffering in the world is also because of the sins and evil of the people.

Peace
Click to expand...


Let me just make sure I have this straight:

1. You don’t exist.
2. God creates you knowing full well that you will choose evil; i.e. creates you to do evil.
3. God then punishes you for doing the evil he created you for.

Sounds to me like 1)There’s absolutely no free will in that system because I can’t choose against what God created me for and 2)A completely pointless system unless the point is simply the entertainment of God; otherwise; it’s completely useless as any kind of basis for morality.

As for suffering, It seems that’s all on God’s shoulders since he created certain people to do evil and they have no choice in the matter.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
Your destiny is based on the choices you make of your own free will. I explain it at length in my article with verses and proofs, please read it. Allah does not interfere with your will. You choose everything with your own free will. Since Allah knows what you will choose, He presents you with such options that you can reach salvation or go astray. You get what you deserve.
Click to expand...


That implies that he doesn’t already know what choices you will make. But you said that he did know which choices you will make. Therefore, there can be no free will because it was all determined when you were created.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom