DeSantis’s Lost Cause

[Stacyhs]

I am begginning to think we are being trolled, folks.

Beginning?

 

[lomiller]

The above is practically a personal attack, suggesting that I am misrepresenting myself as being a conservative. Essentially you are calling me a liar.

Awww poor little snowflake, so fragile and special they need everyone to lie and tell them their fantasy world really exists...

It doesn't matter if it offends you, the world is what it is and the truth won't change because your feelings are hurt.

Conservatives are real,

Are they? Maybe there are some Conservatives in the Democratic party but Republicans are not Conservatives. Republicans have gone off the rails long ago and are their own thing entirely now. They no longer have any real principles other than to do what they are told believe what they are told regardless of whether what they are told is true.

And they are not mostly the demonized group as depicted by resident libs. Most are very decent people that just don't ascribe to a liberal view of the world.

What you are calling a "liberal view of the world" is simply the acceptance of objective fact. It's not "the liberals" fault" Republicans can no longer do this and get hurt feelings whenever facts are discussed.

 

[newyorkguy]

...DeSantis hasn't provided any more evidence than you've been able to provide. He's a blowhard inventing a boogeyman to tell the rubes only he can save them from."...

The real problem with what DeSantis does is that it often works. Propaganda can be very effective.

Though not related to DeSantis, or even US politics, I can think of no better example of the effectiveness of disinformation than stories I've recently read in the news about Ukraine. One woman had to flee her home because of Russian shelling. Her parents live in Russia and she's in cell phone contact with them. At first the woman was reluctant to tell her parents she'd had to flee for fear they'd worry too much. But when she finally did tell them she was astounded to discover, they refused to believe her. Why? They'd been indoctrinated.

The parents watched Russian state TV. State TV reports a Nazi faction came to power in Ukraine and Russia is liberating the Ukrainians. Within Russia, most of the public either believes this or accepts it. When the daughter told her parents in Russia that Russian forces regularly shelled residential neighborhoods they refused to believe that too. They insisted the Russian military wouldn't do that.

 

[arayder]

From the article:

Quote:
In his Focus on the Family interview, he said, "There's an element on the far left that believes parents really have no role in the education of their kids. You drop them off at school ... and they impose the ideology and worldview that they want."

He is 100% correct on the above point. And I think a lot of voters find that relatable.

That’s BS

Yes, that's absolute horse shirt. If you read the position statements of the NEA, every state department of education and every school district you'll see that they want parents to be involved in their children's education and know what they are being taught.

But since DeSantis's statement follows the "own the libs" line it gets repeated as fact. One wonders how folks function in the world when all they believe is dictated by some authority figure who caters to their petty prejudices.

And DeSantis knows exactly what he's doing. He wants the ignorant, easily led, unquestioning band of bigots to hang on his every word.

 

[Warp12]

Yes, that's absolute horse shirt. If you read the position statements of the NEA, every state department of education and every school district you'll see that they want parents to be involved in their children's education and know what they are being taught.

But since DeSantis's statement follows the "own the libs" line it gets repeated as fact. One wonders how folks function in the world when all they believe is dictated by some authority figure who caters to their petty prejudices.

And DeSantis knows exactly what he's doing. He wants the ignorant, easily led, unquestioning band of bigots to hang on his every word.

A lot of voters find his statement relatable...whether you do or not. Oh well.

 

[Stellafane]

A lot of voters find his statement relatable...whether you do or not. Oh well.

I agree with this, otherwise he wouldn't be doing it. And I suspect the underlying reason he's taking this action is to ensure a steady supply of similarly relatable voters in the future. But I doubt this statement was the one that drew the horse shirt comparison, but rather the "He is 100% correct" part. Which is indeed, well, equine feces.

 

[shuttlt]

A lot of voters find his statement relatable...whether you do or not. Oh well.

You've also got the background of intellectuals writing about the need to do that to remake public morality going back to Plato's Republic. Engels talks about it. Pretty much any political philosophy that is about doing away with tradition and remaking the world along some new principle finds it needs to break the ability of parents to pass on their traditions and world view to their children.

 

[arayder]

Yes, that's absolute horse shirt. If you read the position statements of the NEA, every state department of education and every school district you'll see that they want parents to be involved in their children's education and know what they are being taught.

But since DeSantis's statement follows the "own the libs" line it gets repeated as fact. One wonders how folks function in the world when all they believe is dictated by some authority figure who caters to their petty prejudices.

And DeSantis knows exactly what he's doing. He wants the ignorant, easily led, unquestioning band of bigots to hang on his every word.

A lot of voters find his statement relatable...whether you do or not. Oh well.

So it's okay to lie to the voters as long as they buy it?

 

[wareyin]

A lot of voters find his statement relatable...whether you do or not. Oh well.

Wasn't that covered in the "ignorant, easily led, unquestioning band of bigots to hang on his every word" bit? And isn't DeSantis' attempt to indoctrinate FL students in the conservative mindset an attempt to increase his supply of ignorant, easily led, unquestioning band of bigots to hang on his every word?

 

[JoeMorgue]

I said it during the peak of the Trump days that the most dangerous Trumpers were the ones who were convinced they above everything because they were aware of and therefore in on the joke, that basically just swallowing Trump's lies but doing it with an air of detached glibness made them better.

 

[Foster Zygote]

A lot of voters find his statement relatable...

No ****. That's why DeSantis is doing it.

A lot of people found other historical scapegoating campaigns very relatable. That doesn't mean they weren't still horse ****. ("Lot's of people believe it" is on the woo-woo BINGO card, too.)

And the fact that you are unable to come up with any actual examples of freakish liberal ideals and beliefs being pressed on children by public school teachers to support DeSantis's cynical manipulation of the ignorance of his political base should inform you that it is just another ******** scapegoating campaign. But if you keep digging your sure to get out of that hole without having to admit you were wrong - eventually

 

[ponderingturtle]

We can also see your continuing failure to provide the requested examples of "freakish liberal ideals and beliefs being pressed on children".

Gay people exist.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Gay people exist.

And brown people.

 

[Foster Zygote]

You've also got the background of intellectuals writing about the need to do that to remake public morality going back to Plato's Republic. Engels talks about it. Pretty much any political philosophy that is about doing away with tradition and remaking the world along some new principle finds it needs to break the ability of parents to pass on their traditions and world view to their children.

Since Warp has fumbled the ball and is currently running down the field with his own shoe tucked under his arm, maybe you could recover it and score a touchdown for your side by giving us examples establishing a pattern of intent to "break the ability of parents to pass on their traditions and world view to their children"?

 

[shuttlt]

Since Warp has fumbled the ball and is currently running down the field with his own shoe tucked under his arm, maybe you could recover it and score a touchdown for your side by giving us examples establishing a pattern of intent to "break the ability of parents to pass on their traditions and world view to their children"?

I don't think so. This is a forum for cheap point scoring, not debates and resolving disagreements. If you haven't read the history of your own intellectual tradition, it's kind of out of the scope of these threads to talk you through it. A mod box would come along and it would be a derail. I've given you two examples. That's as much as I'm going to do for now.

 

[Warp12]

No ****. That's why DeSantis is doing it.

A lot of people found other historical scapegoating campaigns very relatable. That doesn't mean they weren't still horse ****. ("Lot's of people believe it" is on the woo-woo BINGO card, too.)

And the fact that you are unable to come up with any actual examples of freakish liberal ideals and beliefs being pressed on children by public school teachers to support DeSantis's cynical manipulation of the ignorance of his political base should inform you that it is just another ******** scapegoating campaign. But if you keep digging your sure to get out of that hole without having to admit you were wrong - eventually

I believe we might see that the libs were "digging their own holes", as you put it.

Instituted policy and election results will tell the story.

 

[Warp12]

So it's okay to lie to the voters as long as they buy it?

When has it not been???

 

[wareyin]

I don't think so. This is a forum for cheap point scoring, not debates and resolving disagreements.

Especially if your goal is not to have a debate, but to make a demonstrably wrong statement then "I don't want to discuss it" in response to every challenge to your claim. If your side has zero facts in support, then an actual debate will of course be a losing proposition.

 

[sackett]

No way in hell to keep parents from plastering their fantasies and beliefs onto their children. But public education (and the better sort of private education) can counteract them, even dismiss them, and produce a better generation.

DeSnazi's cheerleaders think that's just the awfulest thing. Gosh I wish I felt sorrier for them.

 

[arayder]

Especially if your goal is not to have a debate, but to make a demonstrably wrong statement then "I don't want to discuss it" in response to every challenge to your claim. If your side has zero facts in support, then an actual debate will of course be a losing proposition.

In our friend's rich fantasy world getting a rise out of somebody by making an outlandish statement you won't back up, or even talk about is the same as "winning" the debate.