DeSantis Martha's Vineyard Stunt

smartcooky said:
Yup!

Standing with nazis makes you a nazi
Agreeing with nazis makes you a nazi
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I'm watching a riveting French drama series called "Un Village Français" about the German occupation of France from 1940-1944. It's interesting because the characters, both German and French, are mostly shown as being neither all bad nor all good, but as people with human faults. The exceptions are the Gestapo and SS who are just evil. It also shows the French who cooperated willingly with the Germans due to their antisemitism and lust for power. They may as well have been Nazis.
 
Warp12 said:
But who cares? Tell me why it matters?
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Stacyhs said:
Why? You'll only handwave it away.
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I'll try. ..

It matters because it is a violation state procurement laws done for the purpose of carrying out an act so heinous that it had to be kept secret.

It also raises the of whether payment was improperly made to a business run by DeSantis cronies.
 
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Stacyhs said:
Godwinning or not, it's the truth. Somehow, I'm not surprised you don't see what the complaint is about that.
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Most people don't get Godwin's rule. It was meant more as a warning that the longer an internet discussion went on, the more likely somebody would express a view so extreme that the only valid comparison was to the NSDAP.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
Most people don't get Godwin's rule. It was meant more as a warning that the longer an internet discussion went on, the more likely somebody would express a view so extreme that the only valid comparison was to the NSDAP.
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You are hereby presented with "The Mike Godwin Award"....

MikeGodwin%20Award.png


....for being one of the few who truly understand what Mike Godwin actually meant in 1990 on Usenet when he said “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1."

Godwin himself has commented on his law over the years, most recently

In December 2015, he commented on comparisons to Nazism and fascism being made by several articles between Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, saying: "If you're thoughtful about it and show some real awareness of history, go ahead and refer to Hitler when you talk about Trump, or any other politician."

In August 2017, he made similar remarks on social media with respect to the two previous days' Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, stating: "By all means, compare these ****-heads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with you."

In June 2018, he wrote an opinion piece in the Los Angeles Times denying the need to update or amend the rule. He rejected the idea that whoever invokes Godwin's law has lost the argument, and argued that, applied appropriately, the rule "should function less as a conversation ender and more as a conversation starter."​


So yes, Warp12's inference that comparing The Fat Orange Turd with Hitler, the alt-tight with fascists, and what is happening in the US with Germany of the 1930's, somehow automatically loses the debate, is completely wrong!
 
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bruto said:
The subject here is not what someone in the 1930's might have thought then (though I think there's room for argument even there, another issue of ends and means), but the character of Nazis in 2022. I contend that if you support the level of evil that is now known to everyone, there is no ledger-balancing act that can tip you out of the bad person column.
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Hence Holocaust denialism.
 
Jesus. Being a Nazi doesn't automatically mean you're bad? In 2022?

Pull the other one, it's got bells on.
 
To be fair, there might be people out there that only know of the good things that the Nazi did and, thus, joined the modern Nazi movement to continue doing those good things..............

It's like one guy I met that is in the KKK, he said that the KKK has reformed and is now only about protecting whites' rights and not about racism....
 
thaiboxerken said:
To be fair, there might be people out there that only know of the good things that the Nazi did and, thus, joined the modern Nazi movement to continue doing those good things..............

It's like one guy I met that is in the KKK, he said that the KKK has reformed and is now only about protecting whites' rights and not about racism....
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It's amazing how people can lie to themselves. How are "whites' rights" different from non-whites' rights? What are they being protected against that doesn't include racism?
 
Warp12 said:
Bruto, I think there were probably Nazi's Nazis who did not know the evil of the underpinnings. These folk were more staunch in their patriotism.
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Sure. They had no idea that the Nazis were extreme antisemites and overall racists before they joined the Party. :rolleyes:
 
I Am The Scum said:
There it is, folks.

I'm bookmarking this post for the next time someone thinks they're having a serious discussion with Warp.
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Oh I see you just want a "Nazis are Bad" echo chamber. Biased much? I'm prefer to keep an open mind because if I'm in a room where everyone is saying Nazis are bad it's definitely vital that I demand a civil debate about that, because if you're on the side of the majority it is time to reflect. That's what being a free thinker who loves free speech is all about.
 
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MarkCorrigan said:
Jesus. Being a Nazi doesn't automatically mean you're bad? In 2022?
Pull the other one, it's got bells on.
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Well, actually, yes it does. In 2022? Even more so.

Truth and facts are more widely available now than in the whole of prior human history - there is no excuse for not knowing who and what Nazis are, and what they represent.

A nazi, in any time period is

- a fascist.
- anti-semitic.
- politically extreme right.
- disdainful of liberal democracy and a supporter of the idea of a one-party, totalitarian state with an authoritarian leader.
- a proponent scientific racism.
- a proponent of the use of eugenics to breed out those considered to be inferior.
- prepared to murder anyone who doesn't fit their view of racial purity.

If just one or more of the above applies to you, that makes you a vile scumbag. If all the above applies to you, that makes you a nazi, and therefore, a vile scumbag, and therefore "a bad person!"
 
JoeMorgue said:
Oh I see you just want a "Nazis are Bad" echo chamber. Biased much? I'm prefer to keep an open mind because if I'm in a room where everyone is saying Nazis are bad it's definitely vital that I demand a civil debate about that, because if you're on the side of the majority it is time to reflect. That's what being a free thinker who loves free speech is all about.
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Careful Joe, your :sarcasm: is showing again!
 
Historically there were members of the Nazi party who weren't evil (see, Oskar Schindler, Gert Fröbe, Albert Göring) but these people were not actually Nazis, just people who were members of the party for whatever reason.

Actual Nazis, people who believed in Nazism, were all vile monsters back in the 30's and 40s. Anyone who is a Nazi today, with the additional benefit of hindsight is if anything even more deplorable.
 
smartcooky said:
Well, actually, yes it does. In 2022? Even more so.

Truth and facts are more widely available now than in the whole of prior human history - there is no excuse for not knowing who and what Nazis are, and what they represent.

A nazi, in any time period is

- a fascist.
- anti-semitic.
- politically extreme right.
- disdainful of liberal democracy and a supporter of the idea of a one-party, totalitarian state with an authoritarian leader.
- a proponent scientific racism.
- a proponent of the use of eugenics to breed out those considered to be inferior.
- prepared to murder anyone who doesn't fit their view of racial purity.

If just one or more of the above applies to you, that makes you a vile scumbag. If all the above applies to you, that makes you a nazi, and therefore, a vile scumbag, and therefore "a bad person!"
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I know mate, I was expressing shock and revulsion at the comment from Warp that it did not.
 
Oh so you don't want Nazis to have Free Speech? You know who else was against Free Speech? That's right the Nazis. So that makes you just as bad as the Nazis. Not personally giving every Nazi you see a free soapbox and Megaphone and making sure nobody is mean to them makes you a Nazi and I'll be damned if I'm going to stand here and argue with a Nazi. Good day Sir. I SAID GOOD DAY SIR.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Historically there were members of the Nazi party who weren't evil (see, Oskar Schindler, Gert Fröbe, Albert Göring) but these people were not actually Nazis, just people who were members of the party for whatever reason.

Actual Nazis, people who believed in Nazism, were all vile monsters back in the 30's and 40s. Anyone who is a Nazi today, with the additional benefit of hindsight is if anything even more deplorable.
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Ok, I do understand that you agree with me now (this wasn't clear).

Just understand that when I say someone is a nazi (lower case) I am talking about their worldview/mindset/political persuasion, not their membership in the Nazi (capitalized) Party. I do not consider Oskar Schindler, Gert Fröbe, Albert Göring, Karl Plagge, or others like them to have been nazis even though they were members of the Nazi Party, any more than would I consider an undercover cop a made-man or a wiseguy when he's inside the Mafia working to bring down a mob boss.
 
Germans sometimes joined the Party out of business, et al necessity or expedience, too. Being a member could give some protection and preferment. As stated, they didn't necessarily agree or like their policies.
 
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