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Derren Brown Show

I just have to share this...

Here's an explanation some guy posted to Derren Brown's BMX Trick on Youtube:

"its not fake the trick is wen derren goes the hndshake bt then takes that guys hand and with his thumb pushes an aceupuncture point in the guys wrist which gets his sub consience confused and that alows all the clues that darren is telling him to enter the guys sub consience as if he were thinking of the bike all along just watch darren wen he goes for the handshake very closely he does that every time"

Derren Brown is using acupuncture! ;P
 
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Kaizen said:
I was merely saying that there are aspects of NLP that are taken from or are consistent with credible sources or lines of study. If you want to address how that's not the case of the two examples I gave, then feel free. Otherwise, your post says nothing.
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What credible sources? I agree with Lothario regarding the Pavlov reference. Humans are not dogs, we can't use evidence of anchoring on dogs to explain human behavior. Your two examples, just like NLP, have not been proven to be effective. The brush strokes are simply too broad to apply to everyone. As far as CBT, read this. Anchoring, on the other hand, apparently may hold some merit, but again, not on everyone. To get back to the OP, go to youtube and watch DB's entire program of The Heist. He went from thousands of applicants down to 4 people, all the while claiming "anchoring," and "NLP," and other things. Even after narrowing the field down to 4 people, he still didn't get everyone to cooperate. I'm not saying that proves or disproves anything, I'm just somehow trying to get back to the OP from all the "valid aspects of NLP" talk.
I think NLP is as bogus as they come. If it really worked, it wouldn't be some big secret only known to Tony Roberts and other Benny Hinn-style arena fillers.
 
Derren Browne says in his book (iirc) that he doesn't use or endorse NLP, but that there are some techiques that come under the umbrella of NLP that work, and he does use those techniques.

I think the key consideration here is that DB is a Magician, and (with the rare exception of tricks that work 1 in 10 or 1 in 100, that have an alternative out or joke for when they don't work), when you're doing magic, you need it to work 100% of the time.

I don't see Derren using psycological tricks and so forth if he wasn't at least reasonably sure that they would work at least most of the time...
 
vIQleS said:
Derren Browne says in his book (iirc) that he doesn't use or endorse NLP, but that there are some techiques that come under the umbrella of NLP that work, and he does use those techniques.
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The problem is NLP uses everything from common sense to "mind control" techniques. DB, while on one hand dismisses NLP, on the other one claims it's "part of his act" and describes some of their techniques.
So, what exactly does he use that is NLP? IMHO, by being vague about it, he's fueling a pseudo-scientific multi million dollar industry.
 
Lothario said:
The problem is NLP uses everything from common sense to "mind control" techniques. DB, while on one hand dismisses NLP, on the other one claims it's "part of his act" and describes some of their techniques.
So, what exactly does he use that is NLP? IMHO, by being vague about it, he's fueling a pseudo-scientific multi million dollar industry.
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He's never actually claimed to use NLP. He discusses that in the book (I suggest you read it - it's awesome)...
 
vIQleS said:
He's never actually claimed to use NLP. He discusses that in the book (I suggest you read it - it's awesome)...
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I've read Tricks of the Mind. He's quite critical about NLP in that book.

However, in this interview:
jamyianswiss.com/fm/works/derren-brown.html

he says the following (about NLP):

DERREN: "Well, I not a big a fan of it, but I've done it and think in some contexts there's some use--that's a whole other conversation--but it's a dirty word as far as I'm concerned. If somebody came up to me and said, "Look, I really liked your show, and I'm going to go to an NLP course," which I've had happen, I would say to them, "Well, if you want to do that, do that, but here's what you'll get out of it. It's not what I do. It's part of what I do," which is I think true, I think that's fair enough to say".
 
Lothario said:
DERREN: "Well, I not a big a fan of it, but I've done it and think in some contexts there's some use--that's a whole other conversation--but it's a dirty word as far as I'm concerned. If somebody came up to me and said, "Look, I really liked your show, and I'm going to go to an NLP course," which I've had happen, I would say to them, "Well, if you want to do that, do that, but here's what you'll get out of it. It's not what I do. It's part of what I do," which is I think true, I think that's fair enough to say".
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I think that generally the relationship between anything Brown does and and NLP is a little like the relationship between homeopathy and aspirin. In both cases you place a pill in your mouth and swallow it.
 
vIQleS said:
Derren Browne says in his book (iirc) that he doesn't use or endorse NLP, but that there are some techiques that come under the umbrella of NLP that work, and he does use those techniques.
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I think that's what it comes down to, well put. ;)


vIQleS said:
I think the key consideration here is that DB is a Magician, and (with the rare exception of tricks that work 1 in 10 or 1 in 100, that have an alternative out or joke for when they don't work), when you're doing magic, you need it to work 100% of the time.

I don't see Derren using psycological tricks and so forth if he wasn't at least reasonably sure that they would work at least most of the time...
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I find that hard to believe. I've seen him do live performances and interviews where he does his 'tricks'. now, he will not risks it going wrong 99 out of 100 times. So his magic can be replicated many times on a consistent and reliable way.
 
The problem with Derren, in my mind, is that while he doesn't use NLP or any other woo junk, he doesn't really do much to let people know that, either.

Just a quick look on youtube shows that he's convinced lots of people that he DOES use NLP or other junk. With other magicians, you know it's just an act, but I think Derren is in dangerous waters by convincing people (even if he doesn't do it on purpose) that he has some powers.
 
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littlehulkster said:
The problem with Derren, in my mind, is that while he doesn't use NLP or any other woo junk, he doesn't really do much to let people know that, either.

Just a quick look on youtube shows that he's convinced lots of people that he DOES use NLP or other junk. With other magicians, you know it's just an act, but I think Derren is in dangerous waters by convincing people (even if he doesn't do it on purpose) that he has some powers.
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My point exactly. While DB is being intentionally vague about his "use" of NLP, NLPers are happily making money and promoting themselves.
 
c4llum said:
I think that's what it comes down to, well put. ;)



I find that hard to believe. I've seen him do live performances and interviews where he does his 'tricks'. now, he will not risks it going wrong 99 out of 100 times. So his magic can be replicated many times on a consistent and reliable way.
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I'm not sure you're understanding what I've written there...

What I was getting at was that a magician is not going to use a technique unless he knows it's going to work 100%.

The only exception is if you have a (usually street or bar) trick that works X% of the time. See also Scam School episode 60:



You might use something like that on stage or for strolling or whathaveyou, but you'd have an out for when it doesn't work...
 
vIQleS said:
I'm not sure you're understanding what I've written there...

What I was getting at was that a magician is not going to use a technique unless he knows it's going to work 100%.
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I would qualify that as saying that a magician is unlikely to use a performance that isn't near-guaranteed to work.

Any individual technique however is a different matter.
 
Well - I did throw in the disclaimer about techniques that have a % chance of working... (as per the examples)

Is that what you meant by performance?

But yes - I think I agree with you...
 
vIQleS said:
Well - I did throw in the disclaimer about techniques that have a % chance of working... (as per the examples)
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Oh yes, right you are - I must have misread you a bit the first time. I think we agree :)
 
Chan Canasta's book of oopses openly contains many "tricks" that are far from 100% certain to be effective, and I don't recall "outs" even being mentioned. I had the impression many (perhaps all) had been used by him at one time or another in his shows.
 
Ehh, Derren's doing magic tricks all the way. And since Blaine and Angel have so blatantly broken the TV magicians' compact with the audience - that camera tricks are not used (and I count cuts, one-way angles, and retakes - say when a signed card is involved,) then why shouldn't Derren go ahead and use the same exploits? They've pretty much ruined magic on trelevision.
 
Mick Houlahan said:
They've pretty much ruined magic on trelevision.
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They've made my job a lot easier though.
When I do the stuff live for people, they are twice as amazed because they always thought that when they saw someone doing something similar on TV that it was a camera trick!

But I broadly take your point - Along with the recognition that magic done on TV could work a lot better than it sometimes does, if the medium were used to show to the audience the impossibility of the medium being the workhorse, if you see what I mean. ;)
 
Also - People have learned how to react to magic by watching TV... I've heard from a few street performers (mostly in the US) that people tend to be a bit more over-the-top then they used to be. Basically emulating the people they see on the DB and CA shows...
 
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