• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Derren Brown Show

Mick Houlahan said:
Ehh, Derren's doing magic tricks all the way. And since Blaine and Angel have so blatantly broken the TV magicians' compact with the audience - that camera tricks are not used (and I count cuts, one-way angles, and retakes - say when a signed card is involved,) then why shouldn't Derren go ahead and use the same exploits? They've pretty much ruined magic on trelevision.
Click to expand...

Derren is hardly blameless in this, I've seen some of his tricks on TV being appallingly edited. That one with where he plants a "suggestion" in the ad men comes to mind right away. It's a pretty simple trick, but it's edited really badly, not even attempting to remove the suspicion of cheating, which is supposed to be a big deal.

Keep in mind, too, that he was doing this while Chris Angel was still disapearing doves for his hair metal band.
 
I wasn't very clear - I'm not holding Brown blameless at all. He's absolutely pulling the same crap. When I say "they've pretty much ruined magic on television," I'm putting Brown in the same category as Blaine and Angel.
Was just being sarcastic when I asked why Brown shouldn't follow suit.
:D
 
I really don't think this is as big of a deal as some people, though. Magicians are entertainers first, and if they have entertained their audience, they have succeeded. Those of us who know their dirty little secrets can critique their techniques until we're blue in the face, but for the layman who provides their living, entertainment is the only thing that matters.

I can't be too hard on guys like Criss Angel because of this. He might use camera tricks and stooges, but he entertains people, and at the end of the day, that is the most any of us can hope to accomplish.
 
littlehulkster said:
I really don't think this is as big of a deal as some people, though. Magicians are entertainers first, and if they have entertained their audience, they have succeeded. Those of us who know their dirty little secrets can critique their techniques until we're blue in the face, but for the layman who provides their living, entertainment is the only thing that matters.

I can't be too hard on guys like Criss Angel because of this. He might use camera tricks and stooges, but he entertains people, and at the end of the day, that is the most any of us can hope to accomplish.
Click to expand...

Hear, hear.
 
littlehulkster said:
I really don't think this is as big of a deal as some people, though. Magicians are entertainers first, and if they have entertained their audience, they have succeeded. Those of us who know their dirty little secrets can critique their techniques until we're blue in the face, but for the layman who provides their living, entertainment is the only thing that matters.
Click to expand...
Hear ye and hear him.

littlehulkster said:
I can't be too hard on guys like Criss Angel because of this. He might use camera tricks and stooges, but he entertains people, and at the end of the day, that is the most any of us can hope to accomplish.
Click to expand...
Meh! Once a magician starts using camera tricks and stooges the magic ends. The bond of trust with the audience is lost. Everything from that point is reasoned away with camera tricks or stooges.
 
I went to see Derren Brown's show "Something Wicked This Way Comes" and came away very disappointed. I had seen his TV shows which I now realised were heavily edited.

In the theatre he was unable to successfully pick out a liar from a group from the audience and had to pay her £50.00 which he had offered if he failed.

I had seen him do this on TV but in the live show he failed.

The second half of his act consisted of wlking on broken glass which I saw done more than fifty years ago.

The whole show was very disappointing.:o
 
hairy potter said:
In the theatre he was unable to successfully pick out a liar from a group from the audience and had to pay her £50.00 which he had offered if he failed.

I had seen him do this on TV but in the live show he failed.
Click to expand...

That's what makes the show interesting. The fact that he is not always right. This is an interesting technique often used deliberately by mentalists, which I shan't discuss at length here. But the drama in Derren's act comes from the audience not knowing if what he is doing is real or fake.

Cheers,
 
I have always been very interested in mentalism, the best, in my opinion, being Joseph Dunninger. There are a number of extremely good mentalists in the UK who are head and shoulders above Derren Brown but are rarely seen on TV.

Some of DB's tricks are quite elementary plus the fact that most of his handpicked audience are usually students who have little experience of magic.

I have stopped watching him now after his farcical attempt to predict the lottery.

Cheers
 
Quote

Need help: I'm trying to remember the quote someone made about magic and revealing tricks. It's something like if a magic trick is truly magical even after you know how it's done.
 
I have been an ardent admirer of Derren Brown ever since he revealed his guaranteed way of backing the winner at the races, every time.

What I admired about that 'trick' was the way in which so many people were led along into thinking that something clever was going on. In the end it was revealed as a victory for skeptical/critical thinking over gullibility.

DB's championing of the skeptical cause is why I like him.
 
littlehulkster said:
Derren is hardly blameless in this, I've seen some of his tricks on TV being appallingly edited. That one with where he plants a "suggestion" in the ad men comes to mind right away. It's a pretty simple trick, but it's edited really badly, not even attempting to remove the suspicion of cheating, which is supposed to be a big deal.
Click to expand...
I think there's a distinction there though, because that editing is not really part of any "magic" effect. I mean, it's not like anyone would have been very impressed if he had really set up those posters, printed those t-shirts etc. The editing is just a cheaper way of doing something completely ordinary.

That said, I would never be more amazed by some TV trick because I trusted the magician that he or she does not use TV editing. Trust? Magician?! About their show?!!!?!!

If they have a large audience, and particularly if the audience contains some well known people who probably would not play along, that might have an effect on me. If the studio is empty, or contains a few students or maybe some celebrity type like an actor or (former) sports star who might well think it's harmless fun to play along, then I simply expect that this is what may be what is happening and I'm not that impressed if that would explain the effect.
 
Well, in my mind, one of the key elements of a good trick is removing the suspicion of apparent cheating.

That trick was edited so Derren could have walked into the room and sat there while the admen drew their picture, then draw his own, stuff it into an envelope and use the cuts to make sure no one was any the wiser.

While he probably didn't do this, the editing takes away from the trick because that obvious conclusion of apparent cheating could be very easily made. A good magic trick should have people searching for wild and outlandish answers for how you did it, not really simple ones.
 
littlehulkster said:
A good magic trick should have people searching for wild and outlandish answers for how you did it, not really simple ones.
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree. A good magic trick should leave no possible explanation, and be so powerful that the audience don't even bother to look for answers.

Cheers,

Chris
 
I'm ready to vote for the "Crappiest Magician who Ruined Everything" award. Houdini tops my list, the scumbag. He made it look like he really did stuff. Penn and Teller completely spoiled my fun forever. Derren Brown will have to work pretty hard to overtake those guys in the category of magic crappitude in the age of TV. I must now go soak my own head and get over it.
 
Chris H said:
A good magic trick should leave no possible explanation, and be so powerful that the audience don't even bother to look for answers.
Click to expand...
I must agree. I never really liked the idea that any magic trick that entertains its audience is a good one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom