Dec. 7th, 2014, 73 years later.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Something else that comes to mind is the sequence with the B-17 doing a brief touchdown with only one main gear extended. Nice bit of flying, that! With a real B-17 too. (In the film it cuts immediately after that to what appears to be WWII footage of a B-17 doing a one-gear crash landing.)

That was a real WWII landing, and the splicing was a bit awkward.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I've asked this before: what in Heaven's name made them think anything so evidently absurd? Not merely think it, but wager their country's wellbeing on it!

Eri Hotta covers this well. The situation was either fight a long war with the US or fight a short war with the US. If it was a long war then Japan would lose. Therefore they would fight a short war. However, they didn't consult with the US on that point. The Japanese are very good at ignoring fatal flaws in their plans.

Perhaps they were influenced by the only recent example available to them of such "one touch" deterrence -- their own behaviour following the defeat at the hands of the USSR in 1939, at Khalkhin Gol. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol

It's more the fact that a person who suggested they couldn't win a war with the US would be shouted down, browbeaten, intimidated and possibly threaten with death.

 

[I Ratant]

Not really - it has been some 30 years + since I read it, but the title is a joke ad campaign suggested by a person della Femina worked with when they were on a campaign to sell one of the Japanese car brands being intro'ed in the US. It does describe campaigns, how they were developed and how they worked out.

.
One rumor floating around was about the city in Japan named "USA", so that the products from there could be titled "made in USA".

 

[MG1962]

It's more the fact that a person who suggested they couldn't win a war with the US would be shouted down, browbeaten, intimidated and possibly threaten with death.

Which is interesting because in popular history the Nazis always get the boo hiss, while most people give the then Japanese government a free pass. The reality was with the exception of actions against the Jews, the military government of Japan really was not much better.

 

[Craig B]

Which is interesting because in popular history the Nazis always get the boo hiss, while most people give the then Japanese government a free pass. The reality was with the exception of actions against the Jews, the military government of Japan really was not much better.

The behaviour of the Japanese occupying forces in the then Chinese capital, Nanjing, was atrocious up to Nazi standards.

Their troops occupied Nanjing in December [1937] and carried out the systematic and brutal Nanking massacre (the "Rape of Nanking"). Even children, the elderly, and nuns are reported to have suffered at the hands of the Imperial Japanese army. The total death toll, including estimates made by the International Military Tribunal for the Far East and the Nanjing War Crimes Tribunal, was between 300,000 and 350,000.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing#Capital_of_the_Republic

 

[3point14]

Eri Hotta covers this well. The situation was either fight a long war with the US or fight a short war with the US. If it was a long war then Japan would lose. Therefore they would fight a short war. However, they didn't consult with the US on that point. The Japanese are very good at ignoring fatal flaws in their plans.

It's more the fact that a person who suggested they couldn't win a war with the US would be shouted down, browbeaten, intimidated and possibly threaten with death.

Is there any mileage in a half remembered theory I read once that the Japanese Navy was only loosely controlled by the Japanese government and were looking for something to justify their existence?

 

[dudalb]

Bingo!!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensurround

Of course" Midway" uses quite a bit of footage from Tora! Tora! Tora!...most obiviously the scenes of Japanese Planes taking off from the carriers.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Is there any mileage in a half remembered theory I read once that the Japanese Navy was only loosely controlled by the Japanese government and were looking for something to justify their existence?

The Army and Navy weren't very responsive to government control. The constitution was modified in ... 1932 IIRC, to allow only active duty officers to be War Minister and Navy Minister. If the military didn't like what a government was doing they'd order the Minister to resign, killing the government. The "Big Six"* dominated the government to the point where nobody else was able to get anything done if the top dogs didn't like it.

On Dec. 7th, 1941, Tojo Hidecki was Prime Minister and War Minister. This give you a feel for how much military domination there was at the time.

*Prime Minister, Secretary of State, War Minister, Navy Minister, Army Chief of Staff, and Navy Chief of Staff,

 

[MG1962]

The behaviour of the Japanese occupying forces in the then Chinese capital, Nanjing, was atrocious up to Nazi standards. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing#Capital_of_the_Republic

Completely agree with you - But stop the average person in the street and enjoy the variety of answers you will receive. Nazis bad = Japanese not so bad, kind of okay really, we kinda feel sorry for them, well the US started it, so they must have been the good guy

 

[Giz]

Eri Hotta covers this well. The situation was either fight a long war with the US or fight a short war with the US. If it was a long war then Japan would lose. Therefore they would fight a short war. However, they didn't consult with the US on that point.

Perhaps they were also considering their victory over Russia in 1905. High morale and early victories allowing a country with limited resources to cause a lumbering giant to give up rather than attempting fully mobilizing its resources for a huge and lengthy war.

 

[Giz]

Completely agree with you - But stop the average person in the street and enjoy the variety of answers you will receive. Nazis bad = Japanese not so bad, kind of okay really, we kinda feel sorry for them, well the US started it, so they must have been the good guy

Yeah. The Nazis have become the poster boy for evil, whereas some 'similar' regimes are either less known or not viewed as being in the same league.

Imperial Japan's behaviour was atrocious, whether considering the treatment of POWs, the treatment of civilians, Unit 731, comfort women, etc etc... But perhaps they don't get used as a cultural 'bad guy' reference in pop culture due to: worries about being seen as racist, the continuing existence of white-supremacists keeping the Nazi references relevant, greater cultural familiarity with the Nazi's victims (Europeans) as opposed to Japan's (Asians).

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Perhaps they were also considering their victory over Russia in 1905. High morale and early victories allowing a country with limited resources to cause a lumbering giant to give up rather than attempting fully mobilizing its resources for a huge and lengthy war.

They fought the Chinese and won. They fought the Germans and won. Victory disease was a problem they never got a grip on.

 

[Craig B]

They fought the Chinese and won. They fought the Germans and won. Victory disease was a problem they never got a grip on.

In 1941 they were fighting the Chinese yet again --- and though severely mauled, the Chinese were holding on. Despite this "running sore" the Japanese elected to take on the USA.

Like Hitler, invading the USSR while the UK remained undefeated.

 

[Dr. Keith]

Not really - it has been some 30 years + since I read it, but the title is a joke ad campaign suggested by a person della Femina worked with when they were on a campaign to sell one of the Japanese car brands being intro'ed in the US. It does describe campaigns, how they were developed and how they worked out.

Thanks. I was confused. Probably still am, but not about that.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

In 1941 they were fighting the Chinese yet again --- and though severely mauled, the Chinese were holding on. Despite this "running sore" the Japanese elected to take on the USA.

Like Hitler, invading the USSR while the UK remained undefeated.

1941 was the fourth straight year the Emperor had been told it would only one more year to end the "China Incident".

 

[MG1962]

1941 was the fourth straight year the Emperor had been told it would only one more year to end the "China Incident".

And the economy was already so stretched it could not keep with domestic demand. Then they pick a fight with the US lol - And we think our politicans are useless

 

[Drewbot]

You were standing by and doing nothing.

If I recall, Europe stood by and did nothing for a lot longer, while Hitler built his armed forces against the treaty. Pardon us for just wanting to supply Russia and England and let them clean up the mess they created.

 

[Ryokan]

Yeah. The Nazis have become the poster boy for evil, whereas some 'similar' regimes are either less known or not viewed as being in the same league.

Imperial Japan's behaviour was atrocious, whether considering the treatment of POWs, the treatment of civilians, Unit 731, comfort women, etc etc... But perhaps they don't get used as a cultural 'bad guy' reference in pop culture due to: worries about being seen as racist, the continuing existence of white-supremacists keeping the Nazi references relevant, greater cultural familiarity with the Nazi's victims (Europeans) as opposed to Japan's (Asians).

I think it has more to do with the ideology behind nazism. It's as relevant today as it was then, unlike being a Japanese imperialist.

 

[I Ratant]

I perceive that "ideology" as "kill everyone you don't know"... and when you can't do that, "kill everyone you know", and when you can't do that, "kill yourself".
All the leaders of the movement did back then...now... if only their followers today would follow their leaders.....

 

[fuelair]

Which is interesting because in popular history the Nazis always get the boo hiss, while most people give the then Japanese government a free pass. The reality was with the exception of actions against the Jews, the military government of Japan really was not much better.

Nazis got the Jews, Japan got Nanking and other China. Both evil, both beaten.