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Dean Clifford Discussion Thread
- Thread starter arayder
- Start date
Update on Dean Clifford's case!
The wonderful folks over on Qualtoos have provided a great update on Dean's case. See the Dean Clifford-Tale of Two Gurus thread.
Möwe's post at the end of page 12 is a gem in which we see the court documents that contradict Team Dean's story.
Nice going, Möwe. And hats off to your anonymous source!
The wonderful folks over on Qualtoos have provided a great update on Dean's case. See the Dean Clifford-Tale of Two Gurus thread.
Möwe's post at the end of page 12 is a gem in which we see the court documents that contradict Team Dean's story.
Nice going, Möwe. And hats off to your anonymous source!
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LashL
Goddess of Legaltainment™
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2006
- Messages
- 36,711
That's quite the list of charges Clifford has accrued. My goodness. Some of them are pretty serious and some of them have mandatory minimum sentences of multiple years in the penitentiary if he's convicted.
I think the tally of his current charges is something like this:
Driving offences (drive disqualified, drive w/o licence, seatbelt);
Assault police;
Unlawfully resisting arrest;
Fail to appear in court;
Fail to comply w/ recognizance (not living at address required);
Unlawful production of marijuana;
Unlawful possession of prohibited weapon (Titan handgun) knowing that it was obtained by the commission of an offence;
Unlawful possession of loaded Titan handgun;
Unlawful possession of restricted weapons without licence x 3 re: Siminov, Cooey, and Remington;
Unlawful possession of prohibited weapon without licence x 1 re: Titan handgun;
Unlawful storage of unsecured restricted weapons x4 re: Siminov, Cooey, Lee-Enfield, Remington;
Unlawful storage of unsecured prohibited weapon x 1 re: Titan handgun;
FTC Recog (possessing weapons when recog says verboten) x 5 re: Siminov, Cooey, Remington, Lee-Enfield, and Titan.
What a moron.
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Dean's mixed up his lies regarding the failure to appear charge charge. He is on audio tape last summer claiming he just never bothered to go to the hearing. After his November arrest he tried to claim that the hearing was never scheduled and that he's being set up.
His PR effort regarding the firearms has tried to excuse the Enfield and the shotgun as family heirlooms. This tale fails to mention the Siminov (an SKS type semi-auto rifle) and a .25 auto caliber Titan which is a very small, very cheap personal protection pistol, thus prohibited in Canada. Canadian law really doesn't like little pocket pistols.
Apparently, Dean had the Titan loaded and ready for business. If the cops caught Dean carrying the Titan, that indicates he intended to have it available for self protection. The problem is Dean considers shooting cops to be self-protection.
Either way, this boy's in trouble.
Truuuuu-bel!
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Stacey Grove
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2009
- Messages
- 1,041
Can't he simply tell the court that he does not consent to the relevant statutes nor does he consent to the proceedings? Surely they would then have to let him go and pay his fee schedule?
Border Reiver
Philosopher
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2011
- Messages
- 6,726
The court has cast Drain Magic over the entire proceedings, preventing Dean's mighty words from being effective.
JeffreySims
New Blood
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2014
- Messages
- 2
A comment in one of the latest videos provides some insight into the motivations behind Dean's actions. The seminar at which he was arrested was $150 a head, I've heard the number of attendees put at 200 which would mean Dean was pocketing $30,000 off that event alone.
This clarifies the bail issue for me. In both the February and current arrest Dean was reluctant to bail himself out, yet in July he posts bail in just a few days. The reason for that, Dean was hurting for cash and needed the money from the Hamilton Seminar. Also explains the marijuana production charge, what better way of setting up some quick cash flow than selling pot on the side. And I think Dean's financial situation is clearly dire based on the interviews near the time of the arrest and some of his court filings and court records.
Now I think it also explains the coyness and lack of updates in the last 4 months. So far Dean has lied about the cause of the arrest and generally withheld information from the public, which thanks to Mowe is now out there. Take note that Dean admits to the shotguns and the antique rifle, but specifically omits the handgun and (forgive the term) assault rifle. I got two hypothesis here. It's possible that Dean is lying to his brother, the call where he lies about the guns, he is informing his brother about the new gun charges, mind you, the same brother that Dean put in jail with bad legal advise. Dean might be obscuring the seriousness of the charges out of shame or something similar. However, more likely, the chain of command has to be examined. Dean is the ring leader, his brother is the one taping the phone calls, then the audio is sent to Dean's website admin.
His admin appears to be a true believer, however Dean or his brother are keeping information from him. In one comment thread the admin admits that he was unaware of some of Dean's Manitoba properties being seized for not paying property taxes, not only that but in 4 months they haven't given the admin the full list of charges or even basic information, the admin finds out about upcoming hearings ironically from Mowe and the boys at Quatloos.
The question is who kept the money from the seminar ticket sales and who is pocketing the "free dean" donations. As soon as it started to become clear that Dean had mislead people the updates stopped, it's been two months without an update directly from Dean.
I also think the Clifford-Menard connection needs to be re-examined. I wanna point out the chronological case summary. Based on Deans own words his OPCA involvement started in 2000, which, correct me if I'm wrong, is the same year Menard starts the Elizabeth Elaine society. Menard pushes the "96 is your fix" scam and coincidentally Dean is taken to court and loses, for not paying his utility bills a total of five times, in 2002, 2003, 2006 and twice in 2010, having to pay $2,615, $2,000, $2,650, $3,573 and $624 respectively. (It's possible he never paid since in at least one of those there's mention of his wages being garnished).
Menard's next scheme was driving without a license or insurance. We know that Dean was taken to court and lost in 2008 for driving without insurance, which is where the current situation involving Dean driving with a suspended license stems from. There he had to pay $50,696.07. Again, it should be noted as far as I know Dean has never admitted to these substantial legal failures.
During the February arrest Menard chimes in with the advice that resisting arrest is legal if the arrest is "unlawful"; coincidentally Dean is arrested not six months later resisting an arrest and (according to his own account of the event) assaulting the cop. Not to mention Menard's claims that it's okay to have a gun without a license and dubious stance on drugs, both of which are a large part of the reason why Dean is in jail.
Dean's lectures are sprinkled with references to a friend that sends him case law, references to World Freeman Society, references to Menard's "notice of understanding", but no actual solid references to Menard. I wanna suggest the very strong possibility that it was Menard who at a minimum, inspired Dean to stop paying his utility bills, which cost Dean nearly ten grand over a decade. Inspired Dean to cancel his car insurance which cost Dean $50,000. Inspired Dean to continue driving without a license and resist arrest. Inspired Dean to monetize his Freeman-guru activities (it should be noted, more successfully than Menard, Dean at least has paid for three trucks and had his own home, more than Menard can claim). And possibly fueled the decision to arm himself and produce pot.
This clarifies the bail issue for me. In both the February and current arrest Dean was reluctant to bail himself out, yet in July he posts bail in just a few days. The reason for that, Dean was hurting for cash and needed the money from the Hamilton Seminar. Also explains the marijuana production charge, what better way of setting up some quick cash flow than selling pot on the side. And I think Dean's financial situation is clearly dire based on the interviews near the time of the arrest and some of his court filings and court records.
Now I think it also explains the coyness and lack of updates in the last 4 months. So far Dean has lied about the cause of the arrest and generally withheld information from the public, which thanks to Mowe is now out there. Take note that Dean admits to the shotguns and the antique rifle, but specifically omits the handgun and (forgive the term) assault rifle. I got two hypothesis here. It's possible that Dean is lying to his brother, the call where he lies about the guns, he is informing his brother about the new gun charges, mind you, the same brother that Dean put in jail with bad legal advise. Dean might be obscuring the seriousness of the charges out of shame or something similar. However, more likely, the chain of command has to be examined. Dean is the ring leader, his brother is the one taping the phone calls, then the audio is sent to Dean's website admin.
His admin appears to be a true believer, however Dean or his brother are keeping information from him. In one comment thread the admin admits that he was unaware of some of Dean's Manitoba properties being seized for not paying property taxes, not only that but in 4 months they haven't given the admin the full list of charges or even basic information, the admin finds out about upcoming hearings ironically from Mowe and the boys at Quatloos.
The question is who kept the money from the seminar ticket sales and who is pocketing the "free dean" donations. As soon as it started to become clear that Dean had mislead people the updates stopped, it's been two months without an update directly from Dean.
I also think the Clifford-Menard connection needs to be re-examined. I wanna point out the chronological case summary. Based on Deans own words his OPCA involvement started in 2000, which, correct me if I'm wrong, is the same year Menard starts the Elizabeth Elaine society. Menard pushes the "96 is your fix" scam and coincidentally Dean is taken to court and loses, for not paying his utility bills a total of five times, in 2002, 2003, 2006 and twice in 2010, having to pay $2,615, $2,000, $2,650, $3,573 and $624 respectively. (It's possible he never paid since in at least one of those there's mention of his wages being garnished).
Menard's next scheme was driving without a license or insurance. We know that Dean was taken to court and lost in 2008 for driving without insurance, which is where the current situation involving Dean driving with a suspended license stems from. There he had to pay $50,696.07. Again, it should be noted as far as I know Dean has never admitted to these substantial legal failures.
During the February arrest Menard chimes in with the advice that resisting arrest is legal if the arrest is "unlawful"; coincidentally Dean is arrested not six months later resisting an arrest and (according to his own account of the event) assaulting the cop. Not to mention Menard's claims that it's okay to have a gun without a license and dubious stance on drugs, both of which are a large part of the reason why Dean is in jail.
Dean's lectures are sprinkled with references to a friend that sends him case law, references to World Freeman Society, references to Menard's "notice of understanding", but no actual solid references to Menard. I wanna suggest the very strong possibility that it was Menard who at a minimum, inspired Dean to stop paying his utility bills, which cost Dean nearly ten grand over a decade. Inspired Dean to cancel his car insurance which cost Dean $50,000. Inspired Dean to continue driving without a license and resist arrest. Inspired Dean to monetize his Freeman-guru activities (it should be noted, more successfully than Menard, Dean at least has paid for three trucks and had his own home, more than Menard can claim). And possibly fueled the decision to arm himself and produce pot.
SpitfireIX
Philosopher
Welcome, Jeffrey. I think you're definitely on to something here.
There is a lot of cross pollination of ideas in the freeman cult.
However, the gurus try to differentiate their theories so as to make themselves seem unique. The gurus usually aren't publicly critical of one another's theories since the subculture tends to embrace an "anything goes" philosophy. Neither do the gurus want to start a flame war. That would be bad for business and invite criticism.
Every once in a while the gurus get after each other like the little divas they are, the Belanger-Menard feud being one example. Belanger goes so far as to claim that Menard and Dean are government moles.
Rumors are that Dean was trashed Menard on a few obscure message boards and in emails. But on the other hand, Bobby came to Dean's defense in his famous drunken YouTube during the former's February 2013 arrest.
The only time freemen gurus really get after another freeman guru is when one of them uses freeman theory to rob some little old lady or shoot a cop. When such things happen the cult circles the wagons and denies the perp is even a freeman.
Lately an online film maker, Steve Bass, who hangs on Menard's every word has been highly critical of Clifford: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB9FjbdNbIQ
This criticism may be reflective of a realization that Dean has been lying about his arrests and jailings, thus putting him in the persona non grada class of failed freeman gurus.
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Like there's some other kind.
In Dean's case he has been caught in demonstrable lies regarding the failures of his methods, the charges against him and even the facts of his alleged crimes.
That sets a new low that surpasses even the insane lies told by Eldon Warman during his slide into insanity.
Menard, on the other hand, merely tells tall tales of street level successes and spins preposterous projects on which he never follows through. Now that, using his SIN, he's cashed in on his daddy's estate and doesn't need to bilk any money out of gullible freemen he's turned into a harmless Facebook surfing couch potato.
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His ole daddy did die. We saw the obit. And Bobby did gen up a story about how he planned to force the insurance company to give up the dough without his SIN number.
We never got a "how I backed down the insurance company" story from The Fezed One so it is logical to assume the older, sister siblings of the family Menard told little Bobby to suck it up, cough up his SIN, take the money and go off and see how fast he can drink it up.
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
- Joined
- May 9, 2006
- Messages
- 29,691
There might be an interesting sociological paper in analysing their relationships as a Boom&Bust cycle.
We've seen that their various schemes have a relatively short shelf life before the courts slap them down. The creation, dissemination, overuse, and eventual collapse of each scheme in turn explains the whole up and down nature of their relationships.
Stage 1, Guru Prime comes up with a new idea (96 is the fix, NUICOR, Consumer Purchases). Prime publishes the idea, and profits from the initial converts.
Stage 2, Secondary Gurus see this profit, and adopt the same idea, promoting it to their own followers, and using it to get new followers, saying things like "Guru Prime is an awesome seeker of truth and freedom!"
Stage 3, the courts take notice of the new scheme, and slap some of the small folk down. This is when the infighting starts - you did it wrong, that's not the same as my scheme, just try this slightly different twist, it'll work for sure this time!
Stage 4, complete collapse. Everyone blaming everyone else for "misleading honest freemen", denying they ever supported the scheme, deleting anything they can find on the internet, declaring everyone else to be shills and moles who are working to discredit the Honest Freemen Gurus by promoting nonsense.
Stage 5, quiet time while everyone forgets what happened last time.
Then, back to Stage 1 when beer and weed money runs low.
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
The direct line from Eldon Warman, to Menard, to Clifford is the idea, badly borrowed from anarcho-libertarians, that governments have no authority to make and enforce any law, unless given the expressed consent of the individual.
The rest of the freeman woo is window dressing.
That none of the freemen gurus have the guts to come right out and say, plain as day, that they have a totally different idea about what government should be is telling.
Instead we hear a lot of self centered whining about their last traffic stop or that the boss is insisting on a social security number.
The rest of the freeman woo is window dressing.
That none of the freemen gurus have the guts to come right out and say, plain as day, that they have a totally different idea about what government should be is telling.
Instead we hear a lot of self centered whining about their last traffic stop or that the boss is insisting on a social security number.
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Since Meads v. Meads the freeman subculture seems stuck in-between stages 3 and 4.
The courts are cycling freemen through at a much faster rate and each day there seems to be more than enough blame to go around.
It's a bad time to be a freeman guru.
A new update from the Team Dean media machine: http://deanclifford.info/category/news/
ComfySlippers
Banned
SpitfireIX
Philosopher