dangers of vitamin supplements

[icerat]

Define a "serving."

depends on the item

 

[jdc324]

There is evidence that certain deficiencies are common among the elderly. Vitamin d, vitamin b-12, iron, magnesium, zinc, and some others have been identified in studies. It appears that the elderly may not absorb some of these nutrients adequately, so supplementation as a precaution might not be unreasonable in this case.

I think there's a good case for vitamin D supplementation (and not just in the elderly), particularly in northern latitudes (e.g. Scandinavia) or in certain populations (see, for example, comments here: http://www.bradforddistrictsccg.nhs.uk/news/vitamin-d-is-topic-to-talk-about-this-month/ and here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/5116438.stm).

B12 deficiency is more common in the elderly, as they are more likely to lack intrinsic factor. It requires injection or very high doses in those lacking intrinsic factor to ensure enough B12 is absorbed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12_deficiency#Treatment

I'm not familiar with the literature on mineral deficiencies in the elderly. I had a very quick look and don't know if what I found is representative or not. This paper suggests that iron deficiency in the elderly is usually due to blood loss: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3322440. This paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8353362 states that "mild zinc deficiency appears to be a significant clinical problem in free-living elderly people" but it appears to be at least partly due to low intake of the mineral ("mean dietary zinc intake was 9.06 mg/day, whereas the recommended dietary allowance is 15 mg/day"). This paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1591145 talks of lower intakes of magnesium by elderly people and says that "conflicting data exist regarding levels of magnesium in the blood and magnesium status in the elderly". It looks to me like low intake is the main concern rather than absorption problems so I guess either dietary changes or supplementation of those deficient in minerals may help. I suppose a cheap, generic 100% RDA vitamin & mineral pill as a precaution might not be unreasonable. For most people, attention should be focused on an adequate diet rather than supplements.

Where deficiency is actually suspected, I'd have thought it would be best to get confirmation and treatment from a doctor. With the higher doses needed to correct deficiency, I'd have thought medical supervision would be appropriate and perhaps necessary.

 

[Kaylee]

I think there's a good case for vitamin D supplementation (and not just in the elderly), particularly in northern latitudes (e.g. Scandinavia) or in certain populations

My primary physician will not test for vitamin D sufficiency. She says its a waste of money and that no one gets enough. She routinely recommends that everyone take 1,000 IU a day.

I'm looking to replace her for other reasons -- but in a world with limited medical resources she may have a point about vitamin D.

Anyone have any comments on that approach?



FWIW I take:

• 2, 000 IU of Vitamin D3
• A general mulitvitamin that includes an additional 800 IU of Vitamin D3
• 1,500 mgs of Omega 3s (500 EPA and 250 DHA twice a day)
• 2 tablespoons of ground flax and 1 tablespoon of turmeric.

My reasons are because:

• While I do usually have 5 servings of fruits and vegetables per day, some of my veggies come out of bag or even a can and don't have as much vitamins as they would if they were fresh.
• It's pretty well established that most meats, diary, eggs, processed foods and oils available to consumers have a higher omega 6 to omega 3 ratio then we should get for optimum health.
• Tumeric is a good anti-inflammatory agent -- I just mix into a cup of bland no sodium vegetable juice once a day along with 1 of my daily tablespoons of ground flax and some black pepper. (The curcumin in tumeric needs the fat in the flaxseed and the piperine in the black pepper to be bioavailable.)

 

[icerat]

[*]While I do usually have 5 servings of fruits and vegetables per day, some of my veggies come out of bag or even a can and don't have as much vitamins as they would if they were fresh.

Actually that's not necessarily true. Sometimes canned and frozen veggies have better nutrition than fresh.

[*]It's pretty well established that most meats, diary, eggs, processed foods and oils available to consumers have a higher omega 6 to omega 3 ratio then we should get for optimum health.

Yes, and so I recommend you take active action to decrease omega-6 as well, otherwise the omega-3 supplementation may be a waste of money

[*]Tumeric is a good anti-inflammatory agent -- I just mix into a cup of bland no sodium vegetable juice once a day along with 1 of my daily tablespoons of ground flax and some black pepper. (The curcumin in tumeric needs the fat in the flaxseed and the piperine in the black pepper to be bioavailable.)

Try some of these instead

 

[jdc324]

My primary physician will not test for vitamin D sufficiency. She says its a waste of money and that no one gets enough. She routinely recommends that everyone take 1,000 IU a day.

I'm looking to replace her for other reasons -- but in a world with limited medical resources she may have a point about vitamin D.

Anyone have any comments on that approach?

Well, I very much doubt that it's true that "no-one gets enough". I've never read a single paper that suggested that was the case. Nor have I seen any statements from medical bodies to that effect. Perhaps a slight exaggeration on her part?

I had a look at the NHS pages on vit D. http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vitamins-minerals/Pages/Vitamin-D.aspx & http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Summerhealth/Pages/vitamin-D-sunlight.aspx

The Department of Health recommends 10mcg (400iu) for pregnant and breastfeeding women, a lower amount for children aged 6 months to 5 years (7-8.5mcg), and 10mcg for "people aged 65 years and over and people not exposed to much sun".

So, firstly they do not recommend vitamin D for everyone. Secondly, they do not recommend that people who need extra vitamin D should supplement with levels as high as 1000iu a day (equal to 25mcg).

I doubt taking 1000iu would be harmful - it's within the tolerable upper levels set by various bodies such as EFSA and the IOM. I am a bit surprised that someone would think that taking that amount as a supplement was necessary for everybody.

 

[icerat]

Problem is that D recommendations are primarily based on calcium absorption and avoidance of osteoporosis, not other potential health benefits. Optimal levels are probably much higher and many experts in the field are calling for much higher levels than currently recommended.

 

[Apology]

Having suffered from a vitamin D deficiency before, trust me, you will know something's wrong. Severe fatigue is one of the main symptoms---fatigue of the "it's just too tiring to eat, I think I'll go hungry" variety.

 

[icerat]

Having suffered from a vitamin D deficiency before, trust me, you will know something's wrong. Severe fatigue is one of the main symptoms---fatigue of the "it's just too tiring to eat, I think I'll go hungry" variety.

That's quite severe D deficiency. How do you feel when lower levels are giving you a "40% higher risk of ischemic heart disease, 64% higher risk of heart attack, 57% higher risk of early death, and to no less than 81% higher risk of death from heart disease"? That can be happening without any overt symptoms at all.

This is the issue that many seem oblivious too - nutrients aren't like petrol, where if you run out your car stops. It's more like oil and coolant, where your motor can keep running even as levels get lower and lower, but you're progressively causing more wear and tear which will shorten the lifespan of the vehicle.

 

[Kaylee]

Actually that's not necessarily true. Sometimes canned and frozen veggies have better nutrition than fresh.

Well I just googled and I see that in the USA food manufacturers are only required to list the contents of vitamins A & C on their labels, not any of the other vitamins. That did throw me off a bit.

Still, it probably depends on how the manufacturers handle the food. I drink 100% cranberry juice to ward off UTIs and since its pasturized and the manufacturer does not add any back in, there is no vitamin A or C. I like beets and for convenience sake I will usually eat the canned variety. I may still be getting some folate and vitamin Bs, but no vitamin A or C per the manufacturer's label. {shrug} According to the USDA food nutrients database, cooked beets does have those nutrients.

Yes, and so I recommend you take active action to decrease omega-6 as well, otherwise the omega-3 supplementation may be a waste of money

So far all I have figured out how to do is to avoid prepared baked goods (except for bread) and store bought hummus since in the States they are almost almost always prepared with soybean oil. I look for breads that are made without soybean oil. I would avoid the other baked goods (cookies, cakes, etc) anyway since I'm trying to lose weight, or at least not gain any. Any other suggestions?

Try some of these instead

If I had more time to cook ... Seriously, while I like most curries, I don't like to have it often. That's a major reason I decided to take my turmeric with vegetable juice and ground flaxseed. It's an acquired taste, but I do enjoy it.

 

[Kaylee]

Having suffered from a vitamin D deficiency before, trust me, you will know something's wrong. Severe fatigue is one of the main symptoms---fatigue of the "it's just too tiring to eat, I think I'll go hungry" variety.

I was feeling fatigued very often and now I'm not. My doctor was of no help and I guess I was too tired to replace her. I added the vitamin Ds and omega 3s based on my own research, and was able to replace my hearing aids with slightly better ones. It probably all helped but I can't know for sure.

 

[icerat]

So far all I have figured out how to do is to avoid prepared baked goods (except for bread) and store bought hummus since in the States they are almost almost always prepared with soybean oil. I look for breads that are made without soybean oil. I would avoid the other baked goods (cookies, cakes, etc) anyway since I'm trying to lose weight, or at least not gain any. Any other suggestions?

Do you eat meat? Cut back or (if you can afford it) switch to grass-fed. If you eat canned fish, always buy it in brine, not oil. It's not just soybean oil that's a problem, corn oil is everywhere too, so watch it. Canola isn't much better.

 

[Kaylee]

Do you eat meat? Cut back or (if you can afford it) switch to grass-fed. If you eat canned fish, always buy it in brine, not oil. It's not just soybean oil that's a problem, corn oil is everywhere too, so watch it. Canola isn't much better.

Thanks Icerat.

I'm on track with the brine and the oils.

I would like to switch to grass feed in the future and to also switch to a better quality of eggs, chicken and milk.

I like meat too much to go vegetarian. I eat meat, chicken or fish once a day and average having meat about 7 - 10 days a month and that is as much as I am willing to cut back.

 

[Kaylee]

Oops! Major typo alert! That's 1 teaspoon of turmeric a day, not 1 tablespoon!

<snip>
FWIW I take:

• 
  <snip>
• 2 tablespoons of ground flax and 1 tablespoon of turmeric.

<snip>

 

[Orphia Nay]

Article about vitamins by Victorian skeptic, Associate Professor Louis Roller PHD, Monash University:

http://vicskeptics.wordpress.com/2013/07/19/vitamins-a-panacea-for-all-ills/

 

[Clayton Moore]

I take
Omega 3
Vitamin C
Vitamin D-3
Vitamin E
Selenium
Lycopene
Beta Carotene
Resveratrol
Potassium Gluconate
Amino Acids
Apple Cider Vinegar

I don't take B-12 because B-12 shots were a feel good craze in the 80s.
Nor do I get a flu shot.

 

[The Don]

I take
Omega 3
Vitamin C
Vitamin D-3
Vitamin E
Selenium
Lycopene
Beta Carotene
Resveratrol
Potassium Gluconate
Amino Acids
Apple Cider Vinegar

I don't take B-12 because B-12 shots were a feel good craze in the 80s

Why ? Is your diet seriously deficient in key nutrients ?

Nor do I get a flu shot.

We're aware of your opposition of vaccination for which you have not as yet been able to provide supporting evidence.

 

[Stomatopoda]

I take
Omega 3
Vitamin C
Vitamin D-3
Vitamin E
Selenium
Lycopene
Beta Carotene
Resveratrol
Potassium Gluconate
Amino Acids
Apple Cider Vinegar

I don't take B-12 because B-12 shots were a feel good craze in the 80s.
Nor do I get a flu shot.

Is there any research into vitamin supplements and paranoia?

 

[SusanB-M1]

supplements are called supplements, not replacements.

you really should try some of those fresh fruit & veg. Or even frozen ones.

Very much agree. I wonder why Dr Dave does not eat them.

 

[Kaylee]

I take
Omega 3
Vitamin C
Vitamin D-3
Vitamin E
Selenium
Lycopene
Beta Carotene
Resveratrol
Potassium Gluconate
Amino Acids
Apple Cider Vinegar

I don't take B-12 because B-12 shots were a feel good craze in the 80s.
Nor do I get a flu shot.

Not my area of expertise but I recall reading articles stating that while beta carotene in foods are very helpful, beta carotene in foods pills or other supplements may put people at higher risk for heart disease and cancer.

Also, vitamins that are oil soluble vs water soluble, such as vitamin E for example, are easier to overdose on as they stay in the body longer.

 

[icerat]

Not my area of expertise but I recall reading articles stating that while beta carotene in foods are very helpful, beta carotene in foods pills or other supplements may put people at higher risk for heart disease and cancer.

If you're a smoker.
(eta: that link says heavy drinker also, which I haven't seen before)

Also, vitamins that are oil soluble vs water soluble, such as vitamin E for example, are easier to overdose on as they stay in the body longer.

What's missing from the list is any idea of the amounts he's taking - which could take any given nutrient from waste of time to maybe beneficial to might be dangerous